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Sutehp
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 Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I wonder if we will ever get any more extrapolation on BOTH Maz Kanata's race and Yoda's race. |
I think I remember that George Lucas once mandated that the name of Yoda's species would never be revealed. Whether that is still operative since Disney bought the franchise, I have no idea.
But more extrapolation on Maz's race? Yes, please.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:05 am Post subject: |
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CURSE you george!!
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | | I think I remember that George Lucas once mandated that the name of Yoda's species would never be revealed. |
Did he say why? |
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | Sutehp wrote: | | I think I remember that George Lucas once mandated that the name of Yoda's species would never be revealed. |
Did he say why? |
Not anything that I can recall with any clarity. My impression, though, (and I think this reasoning is justified) is that giving Yoda's species a name would "demystify" him. Judging that part of Yoda's appeal comes from his mysterious past (even Legends continuity reveals only a smidgen of Yoda's 900-year-long story), even revealing his species name would make him less mysterious and thus less compelling as a character. I can't recall any specific instances of this, but I do remember becoming less enchanted with certain stories and/or characters after the Reveal had been made. I can certainly empathize with Lucas' desire to prevent that from happening to Yoda.
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Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them. |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | | Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | Sutehp wrote: | | I think I remember that George Lucas once mandated that the name of Yoda's species would never be revealed. |
Did he say why? |
Not anything that I can recall with any clarity. My impression, though, (and I think this reasoning is justified) is that giving Yoda's species a name would "demystify" him. Judging that part of Yoda's appeal comes from his mysterious past (even Legends continuity reveals only a smidgen of Yoda's 900-year-long story), even revealing his species name would make him less mysterious and thus less compelling as a character. I can't recall any specific instances of this, but I do remember becoming less enchanted with certain stories and/or characters after the Reveal had been made. I can certainly empathize with Lucas' desire to prevent that from happening to Yoda. |
Lucas should have followed his own advice on this with Vader. |
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | Sutehp wrote: | | Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | Sutehp wrote: | | I think I remember that George Lucas once mandated that the name of Yoda's species would never be revealed. |
Did he say why? |
Not anything that I can recall with any clarity. My impression, though, (and I think this reasoning is justified) is that giving Yoda's species a name would "demystify" him. Judging that part of Yoda's appeal comes from his mysterious past (even Legends continuity reveals only a smidgen of Yoda's 900-year-long story), even revealing his species name would make him less mysterious and thus less compelling as a character. I can't recall any specific instances of this, but I do remember becoming less enchanted with certain stories and/or characters after the Reveal had been made. I can certainly empathize with Lucas' desire to prevent that from happening to Yoda. |
Lucas should have followed his own advice on this with Vader. |
Meaning what? That Lucas should never have done the Prequel Trilogy and show us how Anakin Skywalker fell to the dark side in order to prevent Vader's Villain Decay over the years? I don't see that as a valid reason to justify preventing the fans from finding out how the Skywalker saga began. People were clamoring for that story for years. Say what you will about the quality of the PT, but at least we finally got a story telling us what happened to Anakin Skywalker and why he (and the Old Republic) fell. A mediocre story is better than no story at all. Yoda's species name is a curiosity that the fans can live without knowing. But Vader's backstory is something that people were clamoring to find out about for years.
And Vader's Mook Horror Show at the end of Rogue One did alot to restore his reputation as The Dreaded and erase some of the Villain Decay he got over the years.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | | Meaning what? That Lucas should never have done the Prequel Trilogy and show us how Anakin Skywalker fell to the dark side in order to prevent Vader's Villain Decay over the years? |
Exactly.
Just as you said before about Yoda, the prequels de-mystify Vader. The character was more interesting when we didn't know every detail of his fall from grace.
| Quote: | | And Vader's Mook Horror Show at the end of Rogue One did alot to restore his reputation as The Dreaded and erase some of the Villain Decay he got over the years. |
We agree there. That was awesome.
And, I'd like to see a one-off film featuring Vader during the 19 year period before ANH. |
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | | Meaning what? That Lucas should never have done the Prequel Trilogy and show us how Anakin Skywalker fell to the dark side in order to prevent Vader's Villain Decay over the years? |
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | Exactly.
Just as you said before about Yoda, the prequels de-mystify Vader. The character was more interesting when we didn't know every detail of his fall from grace. |
Perhaps. Me, I prefer having the prequel trilogy to watch over the ability to say "Vader is still totes awesome and han't suffered Villain Decay at all, nosiree!"
| Sutehp wrote: | | And Vader's Mook Horror Show at the end of Rogue One did alot to restore his reputation as The Dreaded and erase some of the Villain Decay he got over the years. |
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | We agree there. That was awesome.
And, I'd like to see a one-off film featuring Vader during the 19 year period before ANH. |
I dunno if we'll ever get a Villain Protagonist Star Wars film during the Dark Times. In truth, I don't know if I'd pay money to go see that, even if it was Star Wars. But at least we do get stories of Vader as the Villain Protagonist in other media. And we also have at least one novel with Tarkin and another with Thrawn as the Villain Protagonists. So we do get some opportunities to see things from the Bad Guys' perspective.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 2:46 am Post subject: |
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The classic trilogy overall works without the prequels, but Anakin is the titular Jedi who returned to destroy the Emperor and we knew almost nothing about him. We had the redemption but no fall. The prequels gave us the fall and a lot of other cool stuff. If you need to ignore the prequels for your enjoyment of the classics then you can do so. But if the prequels ruined the classics or your childhood, then the issue is with you, not the prequels. I personally find that the prequels enhance the classics. Seeing Anakin being contrasted to Luke really heightens the drama of RotJ.
I hope to The Force there are no villain protagonist movies, including Boba Fett (instead put him in an Obi-Wan Dark Times film as someone working for the big baddie). I think a Vader-centered film set in the Dark Times is a horrible idea. We've already seen his fall and redemption. And wouldn't that only demystify him further?
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Last edited by Whill on Sat May 27, 2017 3:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | But if the prequels ruined the classics or your childhood, then the issue is with you, not the prequels. |
I don't know about that. A great deal of people dislike the prequels.
I just wish they were better movies, more like the OT, and far less silly.
| Quote: | | I hope to The Force there are no villain protagonist movies, including Boba Fett (instead put him in an Obi-Wan Dark Times film as someone working for the big baddie). |
Isn't that the rumor? That the next "Star Wars Story" film, after Han Solo, is going to be either about Boba Fett or Obi-wan Kenobi, in 2020.
| Quote: | | And wouldn't that only demystify him further? |
The only time we've seen Vader be a real bad-@$$ is that scene in Rogue One. I, for one, would like to see more of that kind of stuff.
So, yes, I'd vote for a Darth Vader movie set in the Dark Times.
In fact, that should be the title: Dark Times: A Star Wars Story. |
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | But if the prequels ruined the classics or your childhood, then the issue is with you, not the prequels. |
I don't know about that. A great deal of people dislike the prequels. |
I think you missed the point. Yes, a lot of people dislike the prequels. No dispute there. But there is a big difference between not liking them and allowing them to effect your appreciation of the original movies. By saying the prequels demystified Vader in the classics, you are allowing the prequels to affect your appreciation of the classics. That's your own issue. If you don't like the prequels, then just ignore them and continue liking the classic movies as if the prequels don't exist.
But at least you didn't say that George Lucas somehow travelled back in time and ruined your childhood. I've heard that one a lot by prequel detractors. If the prequels or anything else Lucas did while someone was an adult ruined their childhood, then they had a crappy childhood in the first place and can't blame Lucas for that. Lucas doesn't have the ability to travel back in time.
| Quote: | | Isn't that the rumor? That the next "Star Wars Story" film, after Han Solo, is going to be either about Boba Fett or Obi-wan Kenobi, in 2020. |
Yes, those are the leading rumors. An Obi-Wan movie could be awesome. A movie with Boba Fett as a lead protagonist could be horrible. The best option would be to put Boba Fett into an Obi-Wan movie.
| Quote: | The only time we've seen Vader be a real bad-@$$ is that scene in Rogue One. I, for one, would like to see more of that kind of stuff.
So, yes, I'd vote for a Darth Vader movie set in the Dark Times.
In fact, that should be the title: Dark Times: A Star Wars Story. |
That Vader scene in RO works so well because it is one scene. A whole movie of Vader kicking @ss would be pointless.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
But at least you didn't say that George Lucas somehow travelled back in time and ruined your childhood. I've heard that one a lot by prequel detractors. If the prequels or anything else Lucas did while someone was an adult ruined their childhood, then they had a crappy childhood in the first place and can't blame Lucas for that. Lucas doesn't have the ability to travel back in time.
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Though, now that you come to say it like that, I can imagine using exactly that as a farce concept for a one-off D6 Space/D6 Adventure intro session. The villian, George Lucas goes back in time to show people what ruining a childhood REALLY looks like. Only our party of time travelers can stop him!
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Falconer
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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I didn’t like that Vader scene in R1, for what it’s worth. It was something out of a horror film, him just mowing down good guys like sheep. I don’t understand what people enjoy in that. It’s “badass,” so…? Of course, it’s in line with the stuff he does in AotC & RotS. Basically, I’ve seen each of those films (AotC, RotS, R1) once, & don’t plan to revisit any of them ever.
In ANH he seemed like an honorable “black knight” who didn’t share some of the more despicable traits of Tarkin & Motti. Even in ESB you can see him genuinely wanting Luke to join him & overthrow the Emperor together as a (misguided but genuine & even understandable) path to peace. That’s why it’s so easy to root for his redemption in RotJ. |
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Falconer wrote: | | I didn’t like that Vader scene in R1, for what it’s worth. It was something out of a horror film, him just mowing down good guys like sheep. I don’t understand what people enjoy in that. It’s “badass,” so…? |
I can't really offer any rational explanation for why I enjoy it so much. All I can do is try to express my feelings from watching it the first time. Despite knowing the Rebels would get away with the plans, in the theater I was on the edge of my seat. Hurry! Vader's coming! Get the door open! Take it! It just had such a sense of urgency. And it was the first and only lightsaber scene in the film so it was much cooler than anything ever in a horror film. I don't know why it worked, but it does. I don't even like horror films but I almost never watch them so maybe this type of scene was so effective for me?
But it's not just me. I have encountered mostly only approval of the scene and film. I'm sorry it didn't work for you.
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Falconer
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah. It’s funny because on one level I think “ranking the films” misses the point, but on another level I’m fascinated that people have such wildly different preferences sometimes. I hear such negative things about TFA and positive things about R1, but for me it’s completely the opposite. Ah well! |
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