The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Experimental house rule: Beginner's Luck
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> House Rules -> Experimental house rule: Beginner's Luck Goto page Previous  1, 2
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Error
Captain
Captain


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
Error wrote:
Destiny Pool is a really intriguing idea and I like it a lot. Is it something in the RAW somewhere? Or an import from another game? It's really quite novel; I would never have thought of it on my own.


Its a mechanic from EotE with the serial numbers ground off and made to work with D6.

Quote:
How many CP would a beginning game's Destiny Pool have? Is there a formula that has worked for you? By "beginning game" I mean like the first three to five adventures, where the characters are all uberweak still. My logistical self is estimating 0.75 per player (all fractions rounded up).
Quote:


Yes there is a formula. Typically 3 Character Points per player, 1/3 go to the GM or Dark Side, the other 2/3 go to the players or Light Side. As for how often do you change up the Destiny Pool? That is up to the GM, but I suggest only at the end of an adventure. Not a session, the actual adventure.

This mechanic lets the GM set how many points he wants to include and therefore how heroic of luck the players are. You could as a GM say there are 5 Character Points per player.

Keep in mind, everytime a player uses a Character Point it is removed from the Light Side and placed on the Dark Side. Everytime the GM uses a point, it is removed from the Dark Side and placed on the Light Side.

Are characters allowed to use any Destiny Pool dice left at the end of the adventure to improve their characters? Or does the pool drain at the end, and they might as well use it all? I imagine you could alternate between the two if you wanted, or award like 1 CP to each PC for each 1 CP left in the Destiny Pool.


No, this is strictly a mechanic to allow the players to act heroically or lucky, without having to spend their own Character Points. It also establishes a larger pool in which everyone can dip in to.

Oh man. This rocks. Thank you so much for recommending it and elucidating the mechanics for me. This is how I see myself running it:

Rules:
- The Destiny Pool starts with 2 points per player, per session.
- 100% of Destiny Points start on the Light Side.
- Using a Destiny Point has the same game effect as a player character using one of his or her regular character points. This means a character may spend up to five of them when resisting damage, just like character points.
- Whenever a Light Side Destiny Point is used by a player character, it goes to the the Dark Side Destiny Pool (effectively the GM).
- Once such a Destiny Point is used by the Dark Side, it ceases to exist.
- The Destiny Pool itself drains completely at the end of every session.

Proposed but Ultimately Stricken:
- If there are 3 or more Destiny Points left in the Light Side Destiny Pool at the end of each session, each player character who made it to the end of the session gets an additional 1 character point added to his or her regular end-of-session reward.
- There is a 1 character point cap to the above bonus, so ending the session with 3 points left in the Light Side Destiny Pool is the effective limit, and will give everyone an extra 1 character point.

What do you think? I want this to be a way for characters to be lucky/heroic, but I don't really want stuff bouncing back and forth between the PC's and the GM because then the bonus at the end can be intentionally withheld by the Dark Side (not that I would do that, I want the characters to succeed too).
_________________
The only words of explanation you need for any concept in the entire Star Wars universe are the words Science Fiction and Space Opera.


Last edited by Error on Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 2684
Location: Online

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:
Oh man. This rocks. Thank you so much for recommending it and elucidating the mechanics for me.


You're welcome. It is a mechanic I have been kicking around for a while now. Please let us/me know how it works in your game(s).

Quote:
This is how I see myself running it:

- Once such a Destiny Pool point is used by the Dark Side, it is removed from the pool completely (rather than going back and forth between sides).
- The Destiny Pool itself drains completely at the end of every session.


I like this little change you made for your game. The additional mechanics adjust it to a per session format as opposed to the adventure format I had in mind. Pretty cool.

Quote:
- For every 3 Destiny Pool points left in the Light Side Destiny Pool (rounded down) at the end of each session, each player character who made it to the end of the session gets an additional 1 character point added to his or her regular end-of-session reward.
- There is a 2 character point cap to the above bonus, so ending the session with 6 points left in the Light Side Destiny Pool is the effective limit, and will give everyone an extra 2 character points.


I would point out to you, your players are going to be spending fewer Character Points to do heroic/lucky things, so they will effectively have more points to spend on skills. I personally do not think you want to give them an award for leftover points. It changes the idea of the Destiny Pool. You want it to be a mechanic that lets them be heroic/lucky. You do not want them looking at it as a way to get free Character Points for improvement. In fact I would want my players to use as many of the Destiny Points as possible, making the session very heroic.

Quote:
What do you think? I want this to be a way for characters to be lucky/heroic, but I don't really want stuff bouncing back and forth between the PC's and the GM because then the bonus at the end can be intentionally withheld by the Dark Side (not that I would do that, I want the characters to succeed too).


I like your angle on the Destiny Pool. Though what you propose and what I propose are of the same mechanic, the implementation and how it works in the game are radically different.

Within the context of a renewable pool for the players to use each every session, what you have proposed is quite effective. As I said earlier, I would remove the bonus Character Point aspect of the mechanic. To me it does not make sense and actually conflicts with the original intent of it.

I think what you have proposed, with a few tweaks, at least from my perspective, would model effectively what you want to introduce to your game and how you want the players to interact with the setting.

Edit: you may wish to add to the rules that up to five Destiny Points may be used for soak per RAW use for Character Points.
_________________
Don Diestler
Host, Shooting Womp Rats
The D6 Podcast
http://d6holocron.com/shootingwomprats
@swd6podcast, Twitter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Error
Captain
Captain


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I changed it up a bit, clarifying things and adding the soak clause. I may still use the DP's for CP mechanic, I don't know yet. But for now it is sidelined.

There are a lot of ways to do this Beginner's Luck thing it seems. I may even use more than one, I'm not sure yet.
_________________
The only words of explanation you need for any concept in the entire Star Wars universe are the words Science Fiction and Space Opera.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Random_Axe
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 102
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
In that case, if its staying "in perpetuity", and with there not being a downside to rolling those 2 wild dice, why would anyone with beginner's luck even raise skills that are not already improved??

But there would be the downside of rolling wild dice -- I don't agree with taking that aspect away from the wild dice mechanic. Two wild dice in your pool makes it doubly risky to negate a high die or create a really bad complication or botch.
So, that's why you would want to improve your skills.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14021
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random_Axe wrote:
garhkal wrote:
In that case, if its staying "in perpetuity", and with there not being a downside to rolling those 2 wild dice, why would anyone with beginner's luck even raise skills that are not already improved??

But there would be the downside of rolling wild dice -- I don't agree with taking that aspect away from the wild dice mechanic. Two wild dice in your pool makes it doubly risky to negate a high die or create a really bad complication or botch.
So, that's why you would want to improve your skills.


Ah, i thought your rewrite included Error's base angle of the 1's on the wild die would get ignored...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Error
Captain
Captain


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another really simple way to give Beginner's Luck would be to retain the 6 = reroll portion of the rules and just eliminate the "Roll of a 1 = removal of next highest die, or critical failure, or flawed success" rule and have a 1 just count as a 1. And only on 6's (or 5's and 6's if you're a really brave GM) do they get to reroll. This will have a direct effect on gameplay and will accomplish exactly what I'm trying to within the bounds of adding only one line of rules text:

When rolling, characters with Beginner's Luck treat a Wild Die 1 as a 1 (and nothing else), and automatically reroll 6's on their Wild Dice ad infinitum.

Characters lose this ability once they have reached a cumulative awarded character point (ACP) total of 50 (this is something both GM and player should take note of with PC's; how far along the ladder they are, like a 500 ACP character you can bet will beat a 100 ACP (for example) character in one-on-one combat.)
_________________
The only words of explanation you need for any concept in the entire Star Wars universe are the words Science Fiction and Space Opera.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Error
Captain
Captain


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have reworded and powered down the ability I had added to the end of my original post on the subject. It is less powerful but still some CP or DPP may be used for character improvement at the end of sessions.

- If there are 3 or more Destiny Points left in the Light Side Destiny Pool at the end of each session, each player character who made it to the end of the session gets an additional 1 character point added to his or her regular end-of-session reward.
- There is a 1 character point cap to the above bonus, so ending the session with 3 points left in the Light Side Destiny Pool is the effective limit, and will give everyone an extra 1 character point.

I think it is both more balanced and more easily understood. In larger parties it becomes much easier to manage use of both people doing heroic/lucky things and making sure there are 3 left at the end. For smaller parties it becomes more of a logistical concern, depending on what they may or may not have gotten themselves into.
_________________
The only words of explanation you need for any concept in the entire Star Wars universe are the words Science Fiction and Space Opera.


Last edited by Error on Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14021
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you are gonna combine both destiny points and beginners luck?
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Error
Captain
Captain


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
So you are gonna combine both destiny points and beginners luck?

Maybe. I have to see what the group wants to do. I have to explain the mechanics of everything in detail to them before they decide whether to adopt something or not. It's a democracy in a sense. The Destiny Pool stuff seems like an auto-include and I'm going to fiat that we at least try it. The Beginner's Luck stuff, I still have to select the pieces of all the suggestions I've gotten that I want to include, if any. Many interesting ways of tackling the problem have been proposed and I need to go back and read them all and see what makes the most sense to me.
_________________
The only words of explanation you need for any concept in the entire Star Wars universe are the words Science Fiction and Space Opera.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14021
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

May i ask Why you even feel he need to implement either of these>> Have you asked your group if they like the rules as is for character survivability etc?
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Error
Captain
Captain


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
May i ask Why you even feel he need to implement either of these>> Have you asked your group if they like the rules as is for character survivability etc?

I think I and others have stated repeatedly that all of this is to make beginning characters more heroic/lucky/survivable. It is a boon to newcomers (who are the most important D6'ers, period) who can stretch their legs with the D6 system a little better if they have Destiny Pool and the functionality of the 1 on the Wild Die changed so there are less failures overall for at least the first group of sessions.

As for my group, they trust me implicitly not to do anything that would break the game. Which is why I never get to play PC's. I'm always the GM, whether it's SWD6 or D&D or Legends of the Blade or Vampire: the Masquerade; all because my players love what I do and how I run my sessions. Why would you ask that, by the way? Do you introduce elements into your games that piss off your players? I don't. Or if I introduce something they like at first but don't like after a while, I remove it. Simple. It's called playtesting experimentation, something folks on this forum just really seem to have a hard time with. If I come up with an ability and post it here, and playtesting proves that it's not fun or it's broken or too weak, I just peel it back and either rewrite the ability or move on. So simple. People on this site act like I'm putting things into their games.

I think someone a page or two ago asked you to give me a break on the questioning. In fact, I think most of your posts on this thread have just pointed out that you think something or other is too powerful and that you would never use it yourself. That's great, but making your same position clear over and over and over and over again isn't helping. If you don't propose an alternate way to give beginning PC's some form of "Beginner's Luck," then I respectfully request a reprieve from your questioning about it.
_________________
The only words of explanation you need for any concept in the entire Star Wars universe are the words Science Fiction and Space Opera.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14021
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:
If you don't propose an alternate way to give beginning PC's some form of "Beginner's Luck," then I respectfully request a reprieve from your questioning about it.


Maybe i have not proposed one, cause i already think beginning pcs are 'heroic' enough as is, what with their starting 6d higher than mooks for attributes, having FP and CP, and generally getting most gms 'going easy on killing them' for most of the game if not just the first dozen sessions or so...
So i don't see there being a need for yet ANOTHER reason for them to be seen as yet more heroic/life saving etc..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This discussion started out civil and seems to be very slowly spiraling on a downward path. How's about everyone play nice from here on out?
_________________
Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 2684
Location: Online

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Maybe i have not proposed one, cause i already think beginning pcs are 'heroic' enough as is, what with their starting 6d higher than mooks for attributes, having FP and CP, and generally getting most gms 'going easy on killing them' for most of the game if not just the first dozen sessions or so...So i don't see there being a need for yet ANOTHER reason for them to be seen as yet more heroic/life saving etc..


Jesus garhkal! This is the second time I have stepped into this thread because you're acting like a bully towards a forum poster. He is developing something for his game not your game. He does not need to justify why he wants to do something. He can use whatever rules and home-brews he wants. Not everybody does it the SPARKS way. If you don't like the thread, don't read it. D@MN!

jmanski wrote:
This discussion started out civil and seems to be very slowly spiraling on a downward path. How's about everyone play nice from here on out?


What he just said. People need to remember that when people ask for suggestions they are asking for constructive suggestions. They are not wanting to be grilled over why they want something or other. Again, as I said above, its his game and he will run it however he wants.
_________________
Don Diestler
Host, Shooting Womp Rats
The D6 Podcast
http://d6holocron.com/shootingwomprats
@swd6podcast, Twitter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)


Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4833

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tenor of this thread is escalating, and I'm locking it to give it some time to cool down.
_________________
__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> House Rules All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0