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Rogue One (original spoilers thread)
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
Counterpoint: Out of 20 templates in the R&E, 2 of them have lightsabers as starting equipment.

So it might be rare, but not so rare that you can't start out with one.

Since when are character templates represent an accurate measurement of demographics in the SWU? Characters are supposed to be exceptional, to stand out from the masses. The actual description of the device specifies that it is a prototype being developed by Kuat Drive Yards. Its Cost / Availability is NAFS / 4, X. The same as a lightsaber.


And all I was pointing out was that something listed as 4,X NAFS is already on a couple of different templates, so that it is labeled such doesn't necessarily put it out of the range of starting characters. It doesn't mean that 10% of the galaxy has one, simply that someone... an exceptional player character, for example... might.


But the difference here, is a LS is a personal weapon, crafted BY the jedi wielding them. And both those templates that start with one ARE jedi templates. You can't thus say that since THEY have a 4x item, everyone else should..

Quote:
I've not said everyone should have one, or even that most people should... simply that it's not entirely unreasonable that they might and, pointing to the two templates with ships, they might come with their own strings (either belonging to a military or being in debt to a crime lord), just as a lightsaber comes with strings (being assumed to be a Jedi, which is of varying lethality depending on the era).


But those starting with a ship don't get any mods for them. They are base ships from the book, so having one of those experimental tech items WOULD be a mod... Ergo is out.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

There is a logical fallacy on this forum that I encounter with distressing regularity. For lack of a better term, I call it "Possibility = Probability = Commonality." Put simply, it asserts that, if something exists, it is likely that player characters will have access to it, therefore lots of other people will have access to it, as well.


And I have not made that assertion. You have decided I've made that assertion, but you have jumped from "Possibility" (where I am) to "Commonality" (where you seem to think I am) without me.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:

There is a logical fallacy on this forum that I encounter with distressing regularity. For lack of a better term, I call it "Possibility = Probability = Commonality." Put simply, it asserts that, if something exists, it is likely that player characters will have access to it, therefore lots of other people will have access to it, as well.


And I have not made that assertion. You have decided I've made that assertion, but you have jumped from "Possibility" (where I am) to "Commonality" (where you seem to think I am) without me.

Oh? Then why bother bringing up this in the first place?
MrNexx wrote:
Counterpoint: Out of 20 templates in the R&E, 2 of them have lightsabers as starting equipment.

So it might be rare, but not so rare that you can't start out with one.

This statement attributes nothing to the discussion apart from asserting that N-CRABs are more common than their OWN DESCRIPTION says they are.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And even if there ARE a half dozen or so of these things floating around the galaxy in the hands of PCs, so what? This is no indicator of the ability being available as a common technique. It has no bearing on the point originally being made.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The fact that the N-CRAB is equally as rare as a Lightsaber indicates that such a capability is almost unheard of in the WEG SWU. Food for thought.


Why compare its rarity to a lightsaber if you don't want its rarity compared to that of a lightsaber?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
The fact that the N-CRAB is equally as rare as a Lightsaber indicates that such a capability is almost unheard of in the WEG SWU. Food for thought.


Why compare its rarity to a lightsaber if you don't want its rarity compared to that of a lightsaber?

To demonstrate that it is f*** RARE, as opposed to being in common use! I'm not arguing degrees of rarity; I'm arguing that, per WEG, this is a capability that almost NO ONE HAS!
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't at all arguing any case for the EU or canon supporting my assertion that you can change course in hyperspace without dropping back to realspace. And to cite WEG for it being difficult to do so, you don't even have to mention the N-CRAB. It says right on R&E p.117 that it is "suicidal" to do so.

I was speaking to my SWU. Although I love WEG and quite a lot of it does exist in my SWU, WEG is not the inviolable word of God for me. Since I think you should be able to change course in hyperspace with perhaps an added difficulty, I just 'make it so' in for my SWU. Another example of WEG things I disregard is Hutts being hermaphrodites. They are a sexual species with males and females in my SWU. I likewise alter some aspects of non-film canon for my SWU.

If a GM wants it to be difficult, suicidal or even flat-out impossible to change course in hyperspace without dropping out of hyperspace, then they should make it work however they want in their SWU.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
And to cite WEG for it being difficult to do so, you don't even have to mention the N-CRAB. It says right on R&E p.117 that it is "suicidal" to do so.


All we really see is the order to change course.

That could easily mean that the ship would come out of hyperspace early, plot a new course, wait for for whatever time is needed for the drives and such, then re-enter hyperspace on a new course.

Since that is all boring, it's done off screen.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The in-game reason for having lower Astrogation difficulty on known routes could be the more recent information obtained by the Galactic Atlas.

A ship pulls into port, refuels and refills consumables. Updates the GA.

The more traveled a route is, the more good information the port authority will have on the space lanes.

The reason the less traveled hyperspace routes are higher difficulty is because the information feed to the navcomp hasn't been updated in a while. Therefore, it's more risky and requires more input from the Astrogator.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That makes sense.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
The in-game reason for having lower Astrogation difficulty on known routes could be the more recent information obtained by the Galactic Atlas.

A ship pulls into port, refuels and refills consumables. Updates the GA.

The more traveled a route is, the more good information the port authority will have on the space lanes.

The reason the less traveled hyperspace routes are higher difficulty is because the information feed to the navcomp hasn't been updated in a while. Therefore, it's more risky and requires more input from the Astrogator.


That's pretty good, actually.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone is interested in the Rogue One audiobook, I can tell you that it's a top notch production. It's got a great narrator with some sound effects and music (just enough--too much can be distracting).

I've just started it, but I'm impressed. The book has an extended beginning, filling in a lot of details about Krennic, Galen Erso and his family. Now, I'm at the scene where Cassian learns of the defector--again, there's a lot of extra touches the fill out the story, making it more rich. Stuff that you can mention in a novel but don't have time for in a movie.

I'm really enjoying it.

Highly recommended.
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does the audiobook compare to the novelization in terms of plot? Do they closely follow each other? I'm also wondering if the audiobook includes the Supplemental Data included between the novelization's chapters.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
How does the audiobook compare to the novelization in terms of plot? Do they closely follow each other? I'm also wondering if the audiobook includes the Supplemental Data included between the novelization's chapters.


Well, I don't have the print book to compare, but by "Supplemental Data"...that must be the section that was a report about intelligence intercepts. It came after what I think was the prologue (Krennic finding Galen and his family) and Chapter One (which starts with Cassian on that asteroid city looking for his informant).

I didn't realize it was a supplemental section. I thought it was just added to the text. I thought that it was presented quite well.

You are talking about that, right?



As far as the plot, it is very close (so far) to the movie, but there is more depth. For example, when Cassian kills his informant with the hurt arm in the Kafrene asteroid belt, there's some text there: about the illegal silencer used, about the character of the informant and how he would get them both killed, about how Cassian did his duty, but that toll was wearing on him.

And, the scene is extended a bit. Cassian makes it to the roof, lays there, is picked up.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, at least some of those details were in the printed book too.

There are several Supplemental Data in the novelization, each one detailing a different subject. One of them details an "email" (or its Star Wars equivalent) between Mon Mothma and the other Councilors and General Draven on the details of Operation Fracture (which is the codeword for Cassian Andor's mission to find and interrogate Gale Erso about the "superweapon").

Another Supplemetal Data is an email conversation between Tarkin and Krennic about the Death Star's actual purpose and the need to get it online as fast as practically possible, even if it means using non-state-of-the-art technology. Reading how Tarkin describes the Tarkin Doctrine in his own words is absolutely chilling. Tarkin is such a sociopath that he talks about incinerating entire planets the way a normal person would talk about swatting annoying insects. This Supplemental Data has to be read to be believed.

A third Supplemental Data has Mon Mothma describing how the rebellion managed to turn a hodge-podge, ragtag assembly of completely disparate ships (with its resultant logistical nightmare of supplying and repairing so many different ships) into an actual coherent fighting force (and it is awesome).

I'm wondering if stuff like that made it into the audiobook.

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot. I made docfiles of the latter two Supplemental Data if you want to read them. Follow the link in my signature. You'll find them in the Public Folder > Public Star Wars Stuff > D6 SWU Campaign Aids folder.
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