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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Gee, I don't know. Maybe the same way modern astrophysicists can calculate a real space course for a space probe from a cubicle at NASA?
It's not like the math suddenly gets easier in zero-g...
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:40 am Post subject: |
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RO did not "retcon" WEG because that presumes that this movie takes place in the same universe as WEG (it doesn't), and that WEG rules were known to the screenplay writers and there was some intentional decision to disregard them. So they likely did not even know about WEG astrogation rules and they definitely were not beholden to them.
Even under the EU, there was an official policy that any published hyperspace travel times were not canon. And as far as film precedents, ships could already zip around the galaxy in hardly any time before RO. Obi-Wan even left the galaxy and returned in AotC! But look at classic films too. The Rebel Fleet was parked way outside galaxy at the end of TESB. And look at the very first hyperspace jump we see in ANH.
"Well, you can forget your troubles with those imperial slugs. I told you I'd outrun them. Don't everyone thank me at once. Anyway, we should be at Alderaan about oh-two-hundred hours...
Look, going good against remotes is one thing. Going good against the living? That's something else. Looks like we're coming up on Alderaan."
It is suggested that they make it from Tatooine to Alderaan (outer rim to core worlds) in not much more than the space of a conversation. "Lightspeed" is thousands of times faster than the speed of light.
And I see no reason why you couldn't adjust course while in hyperspace. Ships don't move in straight lines in hyperspace anyway. They follow paths which curve and turn at certain points. Due to gravity, nothing in the galaxy moves in straight lines. Even light itself bends in gravity.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | Wanted By Cracken, page 118:Range to Center of Gravity Well = Difficulty Modifier to Astrogation
0-6 = Ship cannot jump to hyperspace
7-12 = +30 or more to Difficulty
13-18 = +21-29 to Difficulty
19-24 = +11-20 to Difficulty
25-35 = +6-10 to Difficulty
37-48 = +1-5 to Difficulty |
Thanks for posting this! I forgot all about this.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | So, in conclusion, 1) Han Solo can pull this off if the situation is dire enough, and 2) your character isn't Han Solo. |
Word. I may have to put this in my signature!
| CRMcNeill wrote: | Gee, I don't know. Maybe the same way modern astrophysicists can calculate a real space course for a space probe from a cubicle at NASA?
It's not like the math suddenly gets easier in zero-g...
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Right! Math is a beautiful thing. I see no reason why you would have to be in space to calculate astrogation coordinates because you can load pre-programmed coordinates planetside. Sure they would be for a general jump point area in space, but it can still be done.
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MrNexx
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Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:51 am Post subject: |
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I would also add "You can't make your calculations beforehand" would conflict with the idea of known hyperspace routes making it easier to astrogate. If I am going from Coruscant to Corellia... a well known, well travelled hyperspace route... there's certainly a fair amount I can do before leaving, even if I do have to carry the two one I'm in space.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:21 am Post subject: |
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All this Astrogation stuff makes me bring up a question.
In the novel, ANH, the Falcon has a piece of software called the Galactic Atlas. Solo remarks that it is not always correct. I assume that the atlas is updated every time it makes port. Ports have their main data bases updated with information downloaded from the various vessels that land there (so some ports are better at updating the GA than others). And, maybe the Imperial Space Ministry, or BoSS, or the Starport Authority, or the local Spacer's Guild makes some effort to update the master files of the GA at various ports in their jurisdiction. I would assume that the GA is updated when consumables are refreshed and restocked, in game terms.
Given that, my question is: How often is it that a ship encounters a world that is not in the GA? Or, how often is it that a ship goes to a world for which it doesn't have pre-calculated coordinates? |
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | All this Astrogation stuff makes me bring up a question.
In the novel, ANH, the Falcon has a piece of software called the Galactic Atlas. Solo remarks that it is not always correct. I assume that the atlas is updated every time it makes port. Ports have their main data bases updated with information downloaded from the various vessels that land there (so some ports are better at updating the GA than others). And, maybe the Imperial Space Ministry, or BoSS, or the Starport Authority, or the local Spacer's Guild makes some effort to update the master files of the GA at various ports in their jurisdiction. I would assume that the GA is updated when consumables are refreshed and restocked, in game terms.
Given that, my question is: How often is it that a ship encounters a world that is not in the GA? Or, how often is it that a ship goes to a world for which it doesn't have pre-calculated coordinates? |
I think back to my mom's Highlander, which came out just before everything went wireless. It had a built in navigation system... pretty much a Galactic Atlas for the continental United States. Updating it, however, meant paying Toyota for a new CD atlas, not merely downloading a no-cost update.
Generally, I'd say any world off the GA is off the atlas because the GM wants it to be off the Atlas, or the players are purposefully moving to the dark parts of the Atlas.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | Generally, I'd say any world off the GA is off the atlas because the GM wants it to be off the Atlas, or the players are purposefully moving to the dark parts of the Atlas. |
Absolutely. That goes without saying.
But, in general, it seems that most known worlds--those with people that are part of the galactic population--would be in the GA and therefore it should never take more than a minute to calculate coordinates if there is a known route.
Maybe there isn't a known route--that would make calculations longer.
It seems that the places that are not in the GA are those worlds that are not populated, forgotten, maybe new colony worlds, places like that. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | Gee, I don't know. Maybe the same way modern astrophysicists can calculate a real space course for a space probe from a cubicle at NASA?
It's not like the math suddenly gets easier in zero-g...
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Prb with that analogy CRM.. Nasa doesn't have to worry about gravity wells, rogue meteors etc screwing up their FTL.. SINCE we don't have FTL!
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Are you really trying to argue that NASA does not have to take gravity into account?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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The point is that those things will ALL still exist in the Nav-Computer's databanks regardless of whether the Nav-Computer is installed in a Starship or in a groundside base. The math isn't going to be any different.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | All this Astrogation stuff makes me bring up a question.
In the novel, ANH, the Falcon has a piece of software called the Galactic Atlas. Solo remarks that it is not always correct. I assume that the atlas is updated every time it makes port. Ports have their main data bases updated with information downloaded from the various vessels that land there (so some ports are better at updating the GA than others). And, maybe the Imperial Space Ministry, or BoSS, or the Starport Authority, or the local Spacer's Guild makes some effort to update the master files of the GA at various ports in their jurisdiction. I would assume that the GA is updated when consumables are refreshed and restocked, in game terms.
Given that, my question is: How often is it that a ship encounters a world that is not in the GA? Or, how often is it that a ship goes to a world for which it doesn't have pre-calculated coordinates? |
We've discussed something similar here. The premise is that most starports will have an on-site navcomp that downloads nav data from inbound ships and analyzes it to generate more accurate route coordinates, which are then uploaded to ships before they lift off. It might even be part of the BoSS (Bureau of Ships & Services)
A simple rule would be to tie it into overhauls, where part of the replenishment process is updating the ship's navy computer with the latest, most accurate route information.
Maybe even tie it in to a house rule that increases the Difficulty of all ship's actions after a certain amount of time without a servicing/tune-up/whatever.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | A simple rule would be to tie it into overhauls, where part of the replenishment process is updating the ship's navy computer with the latest, most accurate route information. |
That data is too important for that. Hyperspace lanes are constantly changing, if only a little bit. A "little bit" can get you killed.
Which is why, I suppose, the Astrogater is needed to make last moment adjustments to the coordinates, with one of those duties telling the navcomputer the exact moment, to the nanosecond, when the ship will actually jump into hyperspace and from what exact position relative to...the galactic core, or the system sun, or the world, etc.
So, I would think this is updated as much as possible and is part of the consumables refill a ship gets when at a port (life support, fuel, and Galactic Atlas data). |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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We were essentially talking about the same thing. I had forgotten the word used in Tramp Freighters (restocking, which also involves basic maintenance).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:17 am Post subject: |
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I think I've always been under the impression that ships at spaceports can link to the most current version of the GA it has and download changes at the same time as uploading any helpful info from the ship's navicomputer to the GA. I think this would be a free service because every navicomputers individual data contributions are what make the updated GAs, and if you want to benefit from the updated info then you have to share what you have. Of course ship captains may want to delete certain info from the navicomputer's travel logs to keep certain jumps hidden, but maybe the jumps can be temporarily loaded into an astromech droid while updating.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Are you really trying to argue that NASA does not have to take gravity into account? |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Are you really trying to argue that NASA does not have to take gravity into account? |
When lifting off from a planet, sure. BUT all ships do.
We are talking about while in space plotting your hyperspace course out..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | Are you really trying to argue that NASA does not have to take gravity into account? |
When lifting off from a planet, sure. BUT all ships do.
We are talking about while in space plotting your hyperspace course out.. |
So what you are actually arguing is that the data (specifically, the location of known gravity wells) to calculate routes through hyperspace is somehow erased from the nav computer's memory when the ship lands, but magically reappears once the ship lifts off?
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