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Spectacular Success Rolls on Initiative
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject: Spectacular Success Rolls on Initiative Reply with quote

With the Quickdraw rules, it becomes possible to roll some pretty high numbers on initiative. So how do you handle / reward initiatve rolls when the result is 10-20 points higher than the next highest roll?

Off the top of my head, I'm picturing allowing multiple actions on the character's turn, like in the old western films, where a gunman shoots multiple opponents down before they even get off a shot. I could also see it working for lightsabers and other melee weapons (in the RW, iaijutsu is a Japanese art for speed-drawing a samurai sword).

Thoughts?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If initiative is being rolled individually i could see it allowing one additional action in the ''action order'' before everyone else goes.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
If initiative is being rolled individually i could see it allowing one additional action in the ''action order'' before everyone else goes.

^ I vote this too. One free action for an initiative roll 15 over the next highest.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So a die roll results awarded Haste sort of thing?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
If initiative is being rolled individually i could see it allowing one additional action in the ''action order'' before everyone else goes.

Error wrote:
^ I vote this too. One free action for an initiative roll 15 over the next highest.

I was thinking more along the lines of "one additional standard action for every 10 points over the next highest." That leaves it open ended.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
So a die roll results awarded Haste sort of thing?

In effect. It's an attempt to create a rules basis for blindingly fast gunfight scenes, like from the old Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns, where the anti-hero shoots down three or four men before they ever get a chance to shoot.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand, this isn't dissimilar to what old Shadowrun did... instead of a set number of actions per round, you rolled Initiative, and got to act every 10 counts. Roll a 51? You get to act 5 times that round, three of them before the guy who rolled the 20.

It wound up really screwing over people incapable of rolling obscenely high initiatives, so they went instead to a set number of actions, with the really high initiative still determining who went first. Everyone gets their first action, then those with more get to follow them up.

I'd love to change to a more Hackmaster like system, eschewing rounds in favor of seconds of action (so, firing a blaster takes only a couple seconds, but effective aiming takes more), but that would take a lot more work than I want to put into it, especially since you'd have to rebuild the initiative system.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
If initiative is being rolled individually i could see it allowing one additional action in the ''action order'' before everyone else goes.

Error wrote:
^ I vote this too. One free action for an initiative roll 15 over the next highest.

I was thinking more along the lines of "one additional standard action for every 10 points over the next highest." That leaves it open ended.


Which is what i was going for. Get a real high initiative roll, get the capacity to take more actions before everyone else starts theirs..
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadowrun didn't quite do it that way. Or rather, it varied with editions.

Shadowrun 2 had a strict ordering. Roll your dice, the highest does their action (and drops 10 points), the next highest (which might still be the same character) does their action (and drops 10 points), and so on and so forth.

Example: SPEEDDEMON rolls an initiative of 51. Grntyface rolls 28. The resulting order is SPEEDDEMON ( 51 ), SPEEDDEMON ( 41 ), SPEEDDEMON ( 31 ), Grntyface ( 28 ), SPEEDDEMON ( 21 ), Grntyface ( 18 ), SPEEDDEMON ( 11 ), Grntyface ( 8 ), SPEEDDEMON ( 1 ). Provided SPEEDDEMON doesn't get any modifiers through injury or stun, of course.

Shadowrun 3 had a round-robin style of actions, which didn't screw over runners with low initiative quite as bad. Roll your initiative. For first action, highest goes, then next highest, and so on. Drop 10. If your initiative is still positive, you get a second action. Highest goes, then next highest, etc.

So, with SPEEDDEMON and Grntyface, that means: SPEEDDEMON ( 51 ) first action, Grntyface ( 28 ) first action, SPEEDDEMON ( 41 ) second action, Grntyface ( 18 ) second action, SPEEDDEMON ( 31 ) third action, Grntyface ( 8 ) third action, and then the rest is SPEEDDEMON's show.

I won't get into more details with pool refreshing and so on - suffice to say that SR3 isn't quite as onesided as SR2 is when it comes to initiative, and that PCs haven't quite the dice pools that they used to have in SR2. SR4, SR5, SR 20th Anniversary, and SR Anarchy does things somewhat differently again.

My personal system in Star Wars is, as I mentioned, declared lowest-first in PER up to highest-last in PER, and then executed highest-first in DEX (or MEC if you're flying stuff) down to lowest-last, everyone's first action executes before everyone's second action, and so on. Nobody rolls unless there's ties in dice codes.

So consider Bob PER 4D DEX 3D vs Dangerfloof PER 3D DEX 4D. Dangerfloof, on virtue of having the lower PER, must declare actions first (giving Bob the advantage of being able to react to Dangerfloof) but Dangerfloof will execute first (giving Dangerfloof the advantage in physical reaction speed).

Example: Dangerfloof and Bob are in a blaster fight. Dangerfloof is particularly oriented towards collateral damage this time. Instead of shooting at Bob, Dangerfloof declares two shots at the power regulator to the reactor in the room.

So, Bob may confidently declare to shoot at Dangerfloof without getting shot at himself, but can't do much about Dangerfloof instead shooting at the power regulator. Bob could of course declare that on his action he shoots at a Tibanna gas tank in the vicinity (thereby at least inhibiting Dangerfloof's blaster damage), but can't do much about that crucial first shot (because Dangerfloof is just faster than Bob).

Consider Dave. Dave has PER 3D DEX 3D in addition to Bob and Dangerfloof. Dave must roll against Dangerfloof on PER to see who has the lower score (and therefore must declare first). Dangerfloof still goes first - but Dave must roll DEX against Bob to see who has the lower score (and therefore goes last). Dave should've gotten that +1 to both PER and DEX instead of TEC 4D, it seems.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does initiative work in the RAW? I only have a .pdf....
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Side A has the PC(NPC) with the highest Perception roll for their side
Side B has the PC(NPC) with the highest per roll for THEIR side.

Highest roll wins.

So PC party 5 characters. 2d+2, 2d+1, 3d, 3d+1 and 4d for perceptions. The 4d rolls (and lets say gets 14).

NPC party of storm troopers (all at 2d), a Commander (say 3d+1) and an inquisitor (3d+2) perception.. The Inquisitor is the highest, so HE rolls and say he gets a 13.

PC's Win and all take their first of their declared # of actions.. Then the imperials take their first.
Then the PC's take any 2nd declared action
Then the imps 2nd and so on..

If the inquisitor rolled a 16 (more than the pcs) then the Imperials go first.


BY the rules, there is no real tie breaker when it comes to both sides rolling the same #, however often people break it by comparing the actual PER score, having a roll off, OR defaulting to "pcs win ties"..
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use something similar to the Shadowrun system for initiative now. Although, I think I count down every 5 to refresh the higher initiative character.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used a shadowrun inspired initiative method.

Everyone rolls initiative individually. They don't have to declare any actions until after the initiative rolls. (Part of the way I view initiative is the quick thinking involved in sizing up a situation before you commit to action.)

When there are lots of NPCs involved I tend to group them together based on what they are doing.

The character with the highest result goes first and then their initiative total drops by 10.

The next highest initiative, even if its the same character after the -10, takes their next action.

--

As a result, the initiative determines the maximum number of actions a character can take; which is important for MAPs purposes.

For example, a character that rolls 43 on initiative knows that they can take an action at 43, 33, 23, 13 and 03.

They can therefore choose to take up to 5 actions that round. Or they can choose to take less actions, or even just a single action if they don't want the MAPs.


I have found that this method makes initiative a very valuable skill to develop for everyone; no character can ride the coat tails of one person in their party with a good initiative score.

That initiative skill gives them a higher chance of acting first, and gives them the *capability* of acting multiple times, but only so long as they have the skills to back up their reflexes (to deal with the MAPs).

The downside is having to keep a running total of everyone's initiative status, which has led to grouping NPCs.
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Xain Arke
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
BY the rules, there is no real tie breaker when it comes to both sides rolling the same #, however often people break it by comparing the actual PER score, having a roll off, OR defaulting to "pcs win ties"..


garhkal the RAW is that the initiator of the action wins in the case of a draw, is it not? I seemed to remember reading that.

I could be wrong (I often am Smile )

Edit: predictably I was wrong Smile the RAW is a Re-roll in the event of a tie (SWRPG 2nd Ed R&E page 78 ).

Xain
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
So a die roll results awarded Haste sort of thing?

In effect. It's an attempt to create a rules basis for blindingly fast gunfight scenes, like from the old Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns, where the anti-hero shoots down three or four men before they ever get a chance to shoot.


I like the spaghetti western metaphor, because Star Wars games do often run like westerns. This definitely would help create such scenes.
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