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Ammo and the games
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:39 pm    Post subject: Ammo and the games Reply with quote

Over on the yahoo group for our ongoing campaign, i brought up the subject that we in the past, here have discussed several times, in relation to the large # of shots per power pack / gas pack for blasters compared to damn near every other weapon..

And someone said "its like most action movies, when do they ever run out of ammo" and while that is true there ARE some where that has been the case, there is also a lot of action movies where ammo IS a concern.. heck in some, the running out of ammo has been well done to increase the drama. Or others which cause of the hero(es) run out of ammo, have to get creative in fighting the baddies..

So who here DOES track ammo? Do you lessen the # of shots per weapon to where you are not getting 200 shots a power pack for some, while only 25 for others?
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I track ammo and keep the capacities the same. Most of my players take heavy blaster pistols, so it's just 25 shots and they need more mags.

Works pretty well for me.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't track it. I expect the players to track it. However, one common complication I use when double ones come up on the Wild Die, is a power pack malfunction. Either the classic ultrasonic whine (which usually means that it's gonna blow), or that the pack is empty, all the Tibanna gas is suddenly vented, or something similar.
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thedemonapostle
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ive never liked the high capacity in game. ive tried to keep track of it in game as a gm, it gets lost easily in the shuffle. i been contemplating just reducing the capacity to real world comparisons and offering extended magazines. something like 1/5th capacity for pistols and 1/3rd for rifles. idk. its all still up in the air...
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My explanation for high ammo capacity on blasters is also part of their popularity. Each shot converts a tiny amount of blaster gas into a linear plasma discharge, so the volume of a single "round" of ammunition is much lower than for firearms.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find that limiting ammo capacity increases the excitement of the game. The most popular weapon a while back at our table was the "modified heavy blaster pistol." 6D damage, and a capacity of just 4. This was despite the normal stuff being offered according to RAW (25, 50 or 100 rounds, etc).
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Error
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is something I'd expect the PC's to keep track of, and only if they want to (for the sake of realism). There are verrrry few instances in the canonical SWU where people stop to reload.

Also, it sort of depends on how you think of/describe blaster dynamics. I just assume power packs are something that PC's would change between sessions.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't played in a long time, but I'd be inclined to go with not bothering too much about ammo consumption, unless in a supply-restricted situation. If you're bopping from port to port on your starship, your blasters are unlikely to run out when you need them. If you crash-land on Endor, then how much power supplies you have becomes really important. At 25-50 shots per power pack, it's a lot less of a tactical concern, too.
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Error
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Related:

What exactly powers a lightsaber? Does Obi-Wan Kenobi have to go to Mos Eisley and haggle with Watto for batteries every six months?

I'm guessing it's something smart like kinetic energy, or energy contained within the crystal, or even just the Force...

I bring this up to illustrate my feelings that "shots per power pack" isn't something I worry about, and not something I expect my PC's to keep track of.

UNLESS of course, they are in a resources-tight situation, as others have said. Then, it can become a plot device. Finding consumables.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lightsaber is powered by a power cell (the SW equivalent of a battery).

It is my understanding that a lightsaber can get a LOT of use out of a single power cell, and that having even one spare (negligible weight/encumbrance), pretty much makes a Jedi immune to running out of power in 99.999% of scenarios.

I just got through with a little creative writing exercise wherein a Jedi knight explains that her aging power cell was running low on account of a recent fight against a form 3 user. It was mostly just for "fluff" and the writing implies that the power cell is quite old and has been through hundreds if not thousands of power cycles already. It could also have technology similar to today's hybrid cars which uses the heat from the brakes to recharge the battery, thus prolonging the life even more. There could also be little solar panels on the weapon somewhere (like on watches or calculators, etc) that further extend the life of the power cell.

But, in my opinion, comparing a lightsaber's power consumption with a blaster's is not quite fair: the lightsaber is a melee weapon that is essentially a "space sword." Whereas a blaster is a "space gun." Also, a lightsaber is somewhat arcane technology--it's esoteric. A blaster is just mundane tech available to anyone and everyone.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedemonapostle wrote:
ive never liked the high capacity in game. ive tried to keep track of it in game as a gm, it gets lost easily in the shuffle. i been contemplating just reducing the capacity to real world comparisons and offering extended magazines. something like 1/5th capacity for pistols and 1/3rd for rifles. idk. its all still up in the air...


I agree. If they never need to worry about running out, why even have costs for replacement power packs.. let alone go into great detail about how many spare packs stormies carry..

MrNexx wrote:
At 25-50 shots per power pack, it's a lot less of a tactical concern, too.


It can also make a difference say in 'do i take the shorter range, higher punch lower shot per pack heavy renegade, or the longer range, less punch DL-20..
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thedemonapostle
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
At 25-50 shots per power pack, it's a lot less of a tactical concern, too.


something about this statement rubs me the wrong way.

tactically speaking, with actual real world experience, a 30 round magazine doesnt last as long as everyone thinks it does. not by a long shot

now in my games the more skilled players would pick and choose their shots, while the lesser skilled would just spray and pray. very basically the difference between a sniper and a machine gunner. and as a gm i get annoyed when the player has more knowledge than their character regarding ranged combat and they use that information. for them, sometimes what i roll and what i say, arent always the same.

now for dramatic game play it can come down to style of play. 80s-90s action movies where the hero shoots his 7+1 desert eagle pistol 30 times before showing a reload. or. the more recent action movies where the hero is specifically shown reloading after the magazine runs dry.


there have been a lot of rules written regarding blasters and their power packs. ive personally abused the making bombs out of power packs rules. but ive also had gm's stick it to me with ammo consumption when i would overly modify a blaster or just go and make one up from scratch, homemade blaster shotgun/cannons. i enjoyed playing that character. pump action blaster shotgun uses one entire power pack for a shot, hold 7 power packs in an under barrel "tube" and "pumps" one into place for use with each pump of the "shotgun."

i always felt singled out for blaster ammo tracking but whenever i gm'ed and they were the players they would throw a hissy fit about it. so for year i let it go. but im not going to anymore.

and final quick thought, if your blaster gets hit by an ionizing weapon, yes a quick repair is needed, but what exactly happens to the power pack and gas pack? is the power pack drained, charged, does it explode? does the gas become ionized and is no longer useful in the blaster? is it less effective? does the gas just combust?
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Error
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedemonapostle wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
At 25-50 shots per power pack, it's a lot less of a tactical concern, too.

something about this statement rubs...


^ Do you desire this kind of detail in your games? Just curious. Because I would beat my chest and then laugh and then quit if I had to keep track of every weapon my PC's have and its exact disposition. No way!

No one worries about it in the movies, though various consumables running out has been a plot device in Star Wars: The Clone Wars at least once that I can think of. So it's certainly "in canon".

Keeping track of PC's ammo is one of those thing that helps a three- or four-hour adventure turn into something that has to be punctuated with a meal...
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my game, when shooting blaster weapons, a '1' on the wild die prompts an ammo check.

Each weapon has a die value for ammo capacity. D4 to D12.

The weapons that have fewer shots per power pack have the lower die values.

The weapons with lots of shots have the higher die value.

When the wild die prompts an ammo check, the player rolls the die for ammo capacity. A '1' on this roll indicates a drained power pack.

ie 1D4 has a 1 in 4 chance of running out.
a D8 has a 1 in 8 chance of running out etc.



On the plus side, there's no need to keep track of the number of shots...ever, and still have a measured chance of running out.

Also high capacity blasters can be fired mostly with impunity as the chances of getting a 1 on both the wild die and the larger ammo die is pretty small.

On the downside, you could conceivably have a player run dry...load a new power pack..take 1 shot and suddenly be 'empty' again on a couple terribly unlucky rolls.

When something like that happens we blame it in-game on a faulty charge.

The other downside is that highly trained troops who might normally try to keep track of their ammo religiously will have no clue when/if they are about to run dry.

So as an additional option, we have elite troops make a tactics roll to drop their die class rather than suddenly run out.

ie an ammo die of D8 might suddenly drop to a D6 or D4.

Those who might not want to contaminate their D6 game with strange other shapes could likely work out something with D6s if they really wanted to do something like this.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:

^ Do you desire this kind of detail in your games? Just curious. Because I would beat my chest and then laugh and then quit if I had to keep track of every weapon my PC's have and its exact disposition. No way!


If you was playig in an ADND like game would you beat your chest then quit if the DM was a stickler about tracking your spell components, arrows/bolts for the archers and the like??

Error wrote:
No one worries about it in the movies, though various consumables running out has been a plot device in Star Wars: The Clone Wars at least once that I can think of. So it's certainly "in canon".


Which movies you on about.? There are plenty of films where ammo HAS been a concern, such as all the Die hards, the Expendables, Taken 1-3. Heck even Black hawk down they had issues with ammo...
It seems only the older 80s-early 90s action movies, or the John Woo types, don't worry about ammo..

Quote:
Those who might not want to contaminate their D6 game with strange other shapes could likely work out something with D6s if they really wanted to do something like this.


I've yet to have a player moan when i pop in a D4, 8, 10 or even the rare d12 into a SW game.
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