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Small Craft Complements
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:31 am    Post subject: Small Craft Complements Reply with quote

Certain aspects of a ship's small craft are pretty well know, such as starfighters, combat shuttles, dropships, landing barges, etc. I'm curious about the less well known vehicles, especially those with more mundane uses. What are some vehicle concepts that you've included in the complements of starships?

Since deck space is at a premium, I would think the best vehicle choices would be as multi-role as possible, so that a one-mission platform isn't just sitting around taking up deck space until that one time you need it.

A few of my own concepts:

    Work Pod - A one-man vehicle equipped with servo arms and a variety of tools, allowing a single crewman to perform external repairs without the necessity of a space platform.

    Engineering Platform - A multi-crew platform used for more extensive repairs. Includes a modular scaffolding and bracing system to dock with a ship's Hull at the repair site, thus creating a stable work environment for the repair team.

    Space Tug - Little more than an engine and tractor beam attached to a crew compartment. Used to haul containerized cargo between ships, as well as Maneuvering assistance for large repair jobs.


There are other possibilities, such as space barges, different types of shuttles and pinnaces, scout ships, Intel freighters, and the like.

Thoughts?
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Similar to the Space Tug, I wound up creating the long-haul version of that... take the cheapest possible hyperdrive, the cheapest possible backup, stick it behind a crew compartment and give it clamps to lock onto a standard cargo container.

http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6021
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the purposes of this conversation, how would you fit your slow haul into the a capital ship's complement of small craft. I'm not really seeing it...
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
For the purposes of this conversation, how would you fit your slow haul into the a capital ship's complement of small craft. I'm not really seeing it...


I'd use a different design than that one, to be sure, but I can definitely see the place for transatmospheric cargo haulers being part of their complement.

Partially inspired by the X-Wing/TIE Fighter games, I got the mental image of standardized shipping containers. The freighters you wind up escorting or destroying in those games could be viewed as two (or four) shipping containers attached to a central ship, with all the engines, drives, shield generators, etc. being located on the "beam" that connects the "cargo pods". The SHF simply takes one of those cargo pods at a time.

For a ship? Rather than a hyper-drive enabled freighter, use a repulsorlift vehicle that can lift cargo to the loading bays of a ship.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe something like the Eagle from Space 1999.



By design, it's completely modular, with the fuselage section between the landing legs being swapped out for variety of different mission modules. For the purposes of this subject, I could even fold my Engineering Platform from above into a mission module that could be carried.

Maybe with a Star Wars twist, though; the cockpit from a Sentinel Landing Craft up front, better engines and less exposed girderwork?

EDIT: Maybe even make it capable of hauling Rapid Deployment Base sections.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Mon Jul 03, 2023 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something came up in another topic that has bearing here. As far back as the age of sail, ships had small craft in the form of rowboats and the like, and many of those names have carried over into the small boats carried by modern naval ships. Here are a few analogs for the SWU:
    Pinnace - An armed utility craft, equipped to carry a small number of passengers, but outfitted for search & rescue, light boarding operations and combat picket duties (particularly when a ship is immobile / at anchor)

    Gig - Similar in size to the Pinnace, but fitted out for VIP Passenger Transport. Commonly called a "Captain's Gig", as most small ships carry only one, which is reserved for use by the ship's captain.

    Launch / Barge - A larger craft configured for hauling cargo or passengers.

At this point, I'm thinking entirely in terms of sublight craft. We have plenty of hyperspace capable craft already that serve as shuttles, whether Lambdas on Imperial craft or YT-1300's on Rebel ships.

I hadn't really considered it before, but the clandestine nature of the Alliance would certainly make YT-1300's useful as shuttles, since one YT-1300 in dozens or hundreds would be hard to tell apart...
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to agree that the Rebellion would use commercial craft (which, in SW universe, are already traditionally armed) for a lot of things for which the Republic or Empire might have a specialized craft. Need a shuttle? Why get something like a Lambda custom-designed when you can use a stock freighter? Heck, they might even wind up using general hulls for more specialized uses... cargo ships for carriers or MASH units, for example.
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Eagles were the first spaceship I fell in love with as a kid and I think they'd be a great addition to the game.

The modular pod design has another benefit that may be overlooked. The modules may be used to construct prefabricated bases.

Pods can be designed for virtually anything you can imagine and easily connected together.

Eagles with space capability can take them to any environment.

Some of the modules/pods seen on the show:

Passenger The standard passenger module, it is usually unarmed and used solely to transport Moonbase personnel. Passenger Eagles have a transport module which provides maximum seating space for eight persons. These Eagles were first seen in the pilot episode "Breakaway".

Reconnaissance Sometimes known as Survey Eagles, this type typically has a computer bank on the starboard side of the ship. Reconnaissance Eagles are used to explore alien planets and regions of space; the sophisticated computer bank is used to obtain, store, and analyse data gathered from the planet being studied including atmospheric composition, valuable minerals resources and biological life.

VIP Seen only in the episode "Breakaway", the orange VIP Eagle was used by Lunar Commissioner Gerald Simmonds; it is primarily a passenger Eagle used to transport high-ranking officials.

Rescue These Eagles are recognisable by their vertical red stripes. Rescue
Eagles are equipped with a variety of rescue and life-saving equipment which can be used in emergencies.

Transport/Supply These Eagles are used to transport supplies and equipment rather than passengers. Their transport modules are designed to carry equipment and have limited seating space for passengers.

Docking Usually a standard Eagle fitted with an extendable airlock to enable docking with another craft in space. This was seen in the episode "Collision Course" when John Koenig had to dock with Alan Carter's damaged Eagle.

Freighter These specialized Eagles are used to transport dangerous nuclear waste to the Nuclear Disposal Areas; unlike supply or transport Eagles, they are heavily shielded to protect their crews from radiation. The waste canisters are carried in a 'pallet' type pod which links to a conveyor belt at the disposal areas. These Eagles were seen in the episode "Breakaway".

Laboratory A specialized Eagle which carries equipment of a more scientific nature than the Reconnaissance Eagle; beginning the second series, they are usually fitted with additional airlocks for decontamination purposes, and have small but well-equipped laboratories on board. These Eagles appear throughout the series, but make their first prominent appearance in the second season premiere "The Metamorph".

Winch Winch pods can be attached to Eagles and used for a variety of purposes. Most notably they were used to attempt to disperse the nuclear waste containers in Disposal Area 2 in "Breakaway". They are not to be confused with Freighter Eagles. Winch pods can be either in the form of a grab, as seen in "Collision Course" when nuclear charges were planted on an asteroid, or a magnetic winch, used for other purposes like removing the Command module of a crashed Eagle in "Missing Link".

Combat Although Eagles are not primarily designed for combat, they can be equipped with laser emitters and missiles for defensive purposes. When Moonbase Alpha broke away from Earth, several Eagles were equipped with weapons and used to defend the Moonbase from potential alien attacks. Specialised Eagles were designated as 'Combat Eagles' in the episode "The Metamorph".

In a Star Wars setting modules may look something like this:

Small Cargo Pod
Cargo Capacity: 50 tons
Availability: 1
Cost: 10,000

Large Cargo Pod
Cargo Capacity: 100 tons
Availability: 1
Cost: 20,000
Refrigeration Pod Small
Cargo Capacity: 50 tons
Notes: Integrates into current cargo system for remote control of compartmentalized variable environments. All compartments are variable in size, pressure and tempurature. Comes with its own power supply so that the unit does not impact on current ship systems.
Availability: 1
Cost: 30,000

Refrigeration Pod Large
Cargo Capacity: 100 tons
Notes: Integrates into current cargo system for remote control of compartmentalized variable environments. All compartments are variable in size, pressure and tempurature. Comes with its own power supply so that the unit does not impact on current ship systems.
Availability: 1
Cost: 60,000

Tanker Pod Small
Notes: Unit is capable of storing any type of gas or liquid in pressurized or non-pressurized states. Comes with its own power supply.
Availability: 1
Cost: 10,000

Tanker Pod Large
Notes: Unit is capable of storing any type of gas or liquid in pressurized or non-pressurized states. Comes with its own power supply.
Availability: 1
Cost: 20,000

Rescue Pod Large
Notes: This unit is a full medical suite capable of supporting up to 40 patients. It comes with two surgical droids and two medical assistant droids and its own power supply.
Consumables: 2 weeks
Availability: 3,F
Cost: 75,000

Passenger Pod Small
Capacity: 20
Notes: 5 rows of comfortable chairs. 2 per side with a walkway down the center and 2 small refreshers in the back.
Consumables: 2 weeks
Availability: 2
Cost: 40,000

1st Class Passenger Pod Small
Passengers: 8
Features: 8 small private cubicles with Hologame systems, Holovid players, interactive holos and 2 small refreshers in the back.
Notes: The cubicles are comfortable. Comes with its own power supplies and filtration systems.
Consumables: 2 weeks
Capacity: 3
Availability: 2
Cost: 45,000

VIP Pod
Features: Hologame systems, Holovid players, interactive holos, sunning room and one jacuzzi.
Notes: The rooms are spacious and very comfortable. Comes with its own power supplies and filtration systems.
Capacity: 3
Availability: 2
Consumables: 2 weeks
Cost: 45,000

Troop Pod
Passengers: 20
Cargo Capacity: 200 kilograms
Consumables: 2 weeks
Hull: 2D
Shields: 1D

PreFab Base Modules
Hull: 2D
Consumables: 1 month
Availability: 2
Cost: 50,000
Notes: These modules can easily be deployed and connected in a wide variety of floorplans. Modules can be laid out horizontally and stacked vertically. Any of the walls, ceiling, and floor can be removed when connecting modules to create larger rooms.

The modules have their own life support and can be used in a variety of enviroments vaccuum, underwater up to a depth of 1.5 km, a poisonous atmosphere, or buried underground.

If there is a catatrophe that cuts off power and traps people inside a module the life support can keep up to 40 people alive for 1 month.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's how TIE Fighter and X-Wing video games used the BFF-1 and their cargo modules... some would be hangars, or repair modules, or whatever. I kind of picture BFF-1 and its class-A Cargo Containers as being like modern intermodal shipping containers... frequently used to just ship stuff, but also useful as a building block for standardized spaces... a "drag and drop" surgical hospital, or a rack for droid troops, or a field base, etc.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
I tend to agree that the Rebellion would use commercial craft (which, in SW universe, are already traditionally armed) for a lot of things for which the Republic or Empire might have a specialized craft. Need a shuttle? Why get something like a Lambda custom-designed when you can use a stock freighter? Heck, they might even wind up using general hulls for more specialized uses... cargo ships for carriers or MASH units, for example.

I did some stats a while back for a YT-1300 configured as a fleet support unit that could be used as a minesweeper, refueling platform, search & rescue vehicle, etc. I wonder what other possible combinations there may be. The MASH unit has potential, but it would have to be pretty widespread to be of use. Maybe a medevac platform of some kind?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ForbinProject wrote:
The Eagles were the first spaceship I fell in love with as a kid and I think they'd be a great addition to the game.

Do you think straight crossover, or a Star Wars-ized version? I could see an Imperial service variant having a Lambda or Sentinel type cockpit, but something with the Eagle's look would be more appropriate for a commercial platform (and more likely to be in service with the Alliance). For the Empire, I could see this being more the mission of the Imperial Loader Shuttle.

Quote:
The modular pod design has another benefit that may be overlooked. The modules may be used to construct prefabricated bases.

Pods can be designed for virtually anything you can imagine and easily connected together.

Eagles with space capability can take them to any environment.

My first thought was the Imperial Rapid Deployment Base, detailed in Hideouts & Strongholds. The guys from Star Wars Design Alliance have redone the deckplans for it, and depending on the relative dimensions of the mission module on the Eagle, it could potentially deliver something similar.

Of course, if the Eagle was only in Alliance service, this wouldn't be an issue, since it wouldn't really need to mate up with an Imperial Rapid Deployment Base.

Quote:
In a Star Wars setting modules may look something like this:

Very nice list. I'll see if I can track down the floor plans for the IRDB to give you some more ideas...

I could also see room for a boarding pod, with a universal collar and plasma torch, with the added advantage that it can simply be left on the target ship's hull while the Eagle fuselage goes back to the main ship for another pod.

As far as the combat version, when I was researched the Eagle earlier, I found THIS, EDIT: which I turned into a link rather than a full image, because, holy crap, that thing was big...
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The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Do you think straight crossover, or a Star Wars-ized version? I could see an Imperial service variant having a Lambda or Sentinel type cockpit, but something with the Eagle's look would be more appropriate for a commercial platform (and more likely to be in service with the Alliance). For the Empire, I could see this being more the mission of the Imperial Loader Shuttle.


I think a Star Wars-ized version would fit better. A straight crossover would be fun for a Space 1999 style campaign.


Quote:
My first thought was the Imperial Rapid Deployment Base, detailed in Hideouts & Strongholds. The guys from Star Wars Design Alliance have redone the deckplans for it, and depending on the relative dimensions of the mission module on the Eagle, it could potentially deliver something similar.

Of course, if the Eagle was only in Alliance service, this wouldn't be an issue, since it wouldn't really need to mate up with an Imperial Rapid Deployment Base.

I don't see the Eagle as a frontline Imperial Navy unit. Instead I envision a civilian craft that's so common you don't think twice when you see it, so you'd never know by looking at it if it was purely civilian, or in use by planetary governors, Alliance/rebels, pirates, Imperial Intelligence, etc.

The Eagle makes me think of an intergalactic big rig, with unlimited customization. And the different pods remind me of how there are real life companies designing big rig containers for houses, office buildings, restaurants, repair shops, field hospitals, customizable emergency disaster relief bases.

I've seen one module that had solar cells on the top, and fold up from the sides and had a small extend-able windmill attached at one end.

And pods could be made for any number of military applications. Never as good as a ship designed for a specific purpose, but a great jack of all trades.

As to the size of the Eagle, these are the stats I found:

Quote:
Length: 76 ft. (23.16 m)
Width: 30.2 ft. (9.2 m)
Height: 6.56 ft. (2 m)
Loaded weight: 238 tons
Propulsion
Sublight engine
4 nuclear fusion rockets
4 chemical fuel landing rockets
strap-on booster units
Performance
Sublight Speed
(Standard) 0.15c (15% speed of light / 27,942.4 miles per second / 44,969 km/s)
(With Spine Booster) 0.8c (80% speed of light / 149,026 mi/s / 239,834 km/s)
Range: 16 billion miles (25.74 billion km) [with extra fuel reserves]
Armament
Fixed laser under the nose module.
Extendable turret in front of centre section.
Passengers
(Type A only) 8
(Types C & E) 4
(Type D) 4 passengers or 2 beds
Fuelled with Compressed Hydrogen.
Standard flight endurance is 96 hours


But if we are going to Star Wars-ize the ship the dimensions can be made larger, but personally I'd keep it under 60m.

Quote:
Very nice list. I'll see if I can track down the floor plans for the IRDB to give you some more ideas...

I could also see room for a boarding pod, with a universal collar and plasma torch, with the added advantage that it can simply be left on the target ship's hull while the Eagle fuselage goes back to the main ship for another pod.

As far as the combat version, when I was researched the Eagle earlier, I found this:


The only problems I have with new ideas is first, I have no idea what pricing should be for a lot of equipment. I'm swagging numbers. for example If I were to put bacta tanks on the rescue pod the cost would go up 3,000 credits per pod, but I'm not sure how much bacta a tank holds nor what size storage tank I'd need to keep unused bacta in. Not even going to get into the fluctuating price of bacta itself.

Second I'm worried I'll make military pods too powerful.

You could have modular engines. The basic mod can't escape the atmosphere, the next can allow interplaetary travel, the third is hyperdrive capable.

Cockpits and weapons pods can double as escape pods.

Fill a pod with passive sensors and you can monitor activity in a system.

Fill a pod with communication gear and you can set up a private holocom network.

Fill a pod with planetary survey equipment and you've got a scout ship

You could make a "Puff the Magic Dragon" gunship pod

Bunker pods could be armored and/or shielded

Pod power sources could be indefinately refueled by Solar Converters,
Solid Fuel Converters, etc.

Prison pods - Cryogenically freeze prisoners or encase them in carbonite and plant the pod on an airless asteroid or moon.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
I tend to agree that the Rebellion would use commercial craft (which, in SW universe, are already traditionally armed) for a lot of things for which the Republic or Empire might have a specialized craft. Need a shuttle? Why get something like a Lambda custom-designed when you can use a stock freighter? Heck, they might even wind up using general hulls for more specialized uses... cargo ships for carriers or MASH units, for example.

I did some stats a while back for a YT-1300 configured as a fleet support unit that could be used as a minesweeper, refueling platform, search & rescue vehicle, etc. I wonder what other possible combinations there may be. The MASH unit has potential, but it would have to be pretty widespread to be of use. Maybe a medevac platform of some kind?


If you're talking the YT-1300, yeah, it would do well as a medevac unit... reconfigure the cargo hold into a medbay, maybe even with a bacta tank for the worst case, and use medical droids to stabilize as you evac to a medical frigate.

But, for MASH units, I was more thinking the Cargo Containers. I know some people are using shipping containers as portable classrooms and such... put all the things the class needs in the shipping container, move it to the site, open it up and boom, instant classroom. I was envisioning doing that with a number of things... a portable hospital, or command post, or mechanic's shed.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
If you're talking the YT-1300, yeah, it would do well as a medevac unit... reconfigure the cargo hold into a medbay, maybe even with a bacta tank for the worst case, and use medical droids to stabilize as you evac to a medical frigate.

Or maybe even a general rescue platform, fitted out with S&R equipment like what we talked about here. That way, it would be equipped to rescue and medevac from as broad a variety of environments as possible.

MrNexx wrote:
That's how TIE Fighter and X-Wing video games used the BFF-1 and their cargo modules... some would be hangars, or repair modules, or whatever. I kind of picture BFF-1 and its class-A Cargo Containers as being like modern intermodal shipping containers... frequently used to just ship stuff, but also useful as a building block for standardized spaces... a "drag and drop" surgical hospital, or a rack for droid troops, or a field base, etc.
Quote:
But, for MASH units, I was more thinking the Cargo Containers. I know some people are using shipping containers as portable classrooms and such... put all the things the class needs in the shipping container, move it to the site, open it up and boom, instant classroom. I was envisioning doing that with a number of things... a portable hospital, or command post, or mechanic's shed.

I had meant to reply to this yesterday but got sidetracked. Yes, shipping containers are very much an untapped resource for base-building in the SWU. In fact, per the Star Wars Sourcebook, the smallest standard sized shipping container in the SWU is a 10^3 meter cube. You could fit three 100m^2 levels into just one, and that's the smallest one they listed. I could easily see a 10m^2 single-level structure 5 meters tall being used for a modular base, as was described. You could literally pre-pack any type of facility into modular cubes and plant it on the ground.

The SWDA guys did something similar, except that theirs was based on smaller, 10x5 or 20x5 units. I saved the deckplans for both it and the IRDB, but their main site crashed a while back, and I'm not sure where the links are now. If I can't find them, I'll post them to Photobucket and post the links here.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
If you're talking the YT-1300, yeah, it would do well as a medevac unit... reconfigure the cargo hold into a medbay, maybe even with a bacta tank for the worst case, and use medical droids to stabilize as you evac to a medical frigate.

But, for MASH units, I was more thinking the Cargo Containers. I know some people are using shipping containers as portable classrooms and such... put all the things the class needs in the shipping container, move it to the site, open it up and boom, instant classroom. I was envisioning doing that with a number of things... a portable hospital, or command post, or mechanic's shed.


That's exactly what I'm talking about. The Eagle would be a great vehicle to use for setting these things up on the ground as well as giving the craft a versatile multipurpose vehicle.


Standard Container in transportation.
Two sides expansion establishing a 32 m2 room area.
Have its own generator, integrated air condition, optional medical gas.
Especially suitable for Operating Theaters, Intensive Care Units or Command Posts.
Expandable Container has two rooms expanding on two long sides. When closed, it fits in the standard dimensions for transport
These rooms are nearly 4.5 meters long and 1.5 meters wide each, which makes a total of 28-30 m2 of total area.

And here's an example of a field hospital put together out of containers

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