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What makes Star Wars Star Wars?
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discosoc
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:01 pm    Post subject: What makes Star Wars Star Wars? Reply with quote

I'm dusting off my old RPG's this year, and we're starting with WEG Star Wars. I have fond memories of playing the system back in high school in the 90's, so definitely excited. Anyway, I'll be running as the GM, and have decided to challenge myself by converting a Pathfinder Adventure Path (Rise of the Runelords) into a Star Wars campaign. I've done most of the leg work, and really feel like the conversion from high fantasy to space opera is going well, despite some early problems.

Scale, for example, is obviously different. In the Pathfinder adventure, you have a central town called Sandpoint with 4 local noble families and a whole bunch of townsfolk, etc.. I essentially just converted the noble families into corporations who have formed some sort of merchantile league in the local system, and where Pathfinder would have an Inn and a blacksmith, I have setup sections on the main city and space station that serve the same purposes. That kind of stuff. Essentially, I focused on converting the core elements of the story and setting rather than try and do a 1:1 conversion of stat blocks and stuff.

I have space battles, pirate boarding parties, conspiracies, a dominant Imperial presence challenged by a underdog Rebel Alliance group, chase scenes, and a large droid-related plot.

The problem is, despite the conversion really working out thematically, it doesn't feel like Star Wars. It feels more like Mass Effect. Now I have some ideas on why that is, some of which are quick fixes, but it got me thinking. What really makes Star Wars what it is, and how is that different from other sci-fi settings? And how do you translate that into a good Star Wars adventure?

At first glance, the biggest reason why I feel like my conversion is more Mass Effect than Star Wars is it lacks any kind of Force presence. It takes place between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, so Jedi are still very much at a low point. I purposefully avoided throwing in some token Jedi NPC's so as not to look like some Luke Skywalker ripoff (I'd call him John NounVerber, btw), but I'm reconsidering that decision now.

I think I also make the mistake of setting up Humans as the primary species in the system we're in, but after rewatching the movies I think I need to diversify the cast a lot more. Just because I personally don't enjoy playing aliens doesn't mean they aren't actually important parts of the puzzle.

Anyway, I'll run the conversion as-is since I do like end result (Mass Effect is an awesome settings, IMO), but it has had me thinking about what the 'missing ingredient' possible is.
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wear and tear. By that, in the Star Wars movies, things are VERY worn. If you haven't already, adding extra descriptions of the items and places to help convey that feeling always made things feel more like Star Wars to me.

Another thing worth mentioning, if you haven't checked it out, there's a boxed set out there called the Lords of the Expanse. It has a lot of information focused around nobles in Star Wars. Realizing that you did convert the nobles from Pathfinder into corporations, you might still find some value with info focused on that particular genre. The Corporate Sector Sourcebook also has some good information on running adventures centered around corporations.
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bobenhotep
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Star Wars you mix primitive things with fantastic technology. People use mounts to get around. They use fantastic tech to build energy swords. Mos Eisley is a spaceport made of adobe buildings with dirt roads. I could go on, but you get the idea. You could have kept the nobles, huts, and stone buildings. The nobles would just have droid servants, mud huts would have lights and some tech, and castles would have landing pads for starships and airspeeders.

The worn out stuff thing is also a big point, like JironGhrad said. Tech has been around for a looong time. Ancient legends are about Xim the Despot, who had starships and war droids and fought aliens. You don't need the Force to be a prominent element in your game. Just remember that tech has been around a long time, things are worn out, and throw in some ancient anachronistic stuff here and there.
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Whill
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: What makes Star Wars Star Wars? Reply with quote

discosoc wrote:
I'm dusting off my old RPG's this year, and we're starting with WEG Star Wars. I have fond memories of playing the system back in high school in the 90's, so definitely excited.

Welcome to the Pit discosoc, and welcome back to WEG Star Wars!

discosoc wrote:
Anyway, I'll be running as the GM, and have decided to challenge myself by converting a Pathfinder Adventure Path (Rise of the Runelords) into a Star Wars campaign. I've done most of the leg work, and really feel like the conversion from high fantasy to space opera is going well, despite some early problems.

Scale, for example, is obviously different. In the Pathfinder adventure, you have a central town called Sandpoint with 4 local noble families and a whole bunch of townsfolk, etc.. I essentially just converted the noble families into corporations who have formed some sort of merchantile league in the local system, and where Pathfinder would have an Inn and a blacksmith, I have setup sections on the main city and space station that serve the same purposes. That kind of stuff. Essentially, I focused on converting the core elements of the story and setting rather than try and do a 1:1 conversion of stat blocks and stuff.

I have space battles, pirate boarding parties, conspiracies, a dominant Imperial presence challenged by a underdog Rebel Alliance group, chase scenes, and a large droid-related plot.

The problem is, despite the conversion really working out thematically, it doesn't feel like Star Wars. It feels more like Mass Effect. Now I have some ideas on why that is, some of which are quick fixes, but it got me thinking. What really makes Star Wars what it is, and how is that different from other sci-fi settings? And how do you translate that into a good Star Wars adventure?

At first glance, the biggest reason why I feel like my conversion is more Mass Effect than Star Wars is it lacks any kind of Force presence. It takes place between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, so Jedi are still very much at a low point. I purposefully avoided throwing in some token Jedi NPC's so as not to look like some Luke Skywalker ripoff (I'd call him John NounVerber, btw), but I'm reconsidering that decision now.

I think I also make the mistake of setting up Humans as the primary species in the system we're in, but after rewatching the movies I think I need to diversify the cast a lot more. Just because I personally don't enjoy playing aliens doesn't mean they aren't actually important parts of the puzzle.

Anyway, I'll run the conversion as-is since I do like end result (Mass Effect is an awesome settings, IMO), but it has had me thinking about what the 'missing ingredient' possible is.

This is an interesting and difficult question. I have no experience with Pathfinder or Mass Effect so can't speak to those aspects of your conversion.

I don't think I've ever had the problem of being able to capturing essence of Star Wars in my game. It just comes naturally. It's instinctive, I guess. And in my 1e days I even had a handful of adventures that even went outside the genre of Star Wars involving crossing over into an alternate universe, time travel and temporarily being trapped in an fantasy-inspired pocket dimension where the entire 'world' was an infinite flat land ruled by a giant dragon named Satan. (OK I admit that last one was hardly Star Wars.)

So, what makes Star Wars Star Wars? One constant for my game is the Galactic Empire. Not always as the antagonists, but the Empire as a setting/era. Even if an adventure takes place outside of the Empire, the Empire is still the omnipresent backdrop, the main galactic power, with rebellions opposed to it. I like the prequels and TFA, they are in my personal canon, but for some reason I just have no interest in setting my game in those eras.

What else? Star Wars alien species is a big one for me, and droids too. Blasters, heroic actions, good vs. evil, good and bad luck, planet hopping, high adventure, high stakes and epic scale are all important in my campaigns. Shoot-outs are a must, and I try to have a little space combat in most adventures. Chases are fairly frequent in my game - Sometimes the PCs are doing the chasing and other times they are being chased. It's not all action, but there are a least a few action sequences in every adventure. I can also echo the 'lived-in' universe that JironGhrad and bobenhotep mentioned.

One more thing I wanted to comment on are Jedi and The Force. It seems a fairly common stance among Star Wars gamers that it is just not Star Wars without the Force, and some even say there must be at least one Force-user in every party. I love Jedi and The Force in general, but I disagree with this "quota" sentiment for the game. While most of my campaigns have had at least one Force-user, I have had multiple entire campaigns without any Force-using PCs or antagonists, and it still felt like Star Wars.
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Last edited by Whill on Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All you see in the original movies are sparsely populated (single-settlement) planets with simple but stark terrain descriptors (desert, jungle, forest, mud, ice, swamp, cloud). Sticking to that sort of setup might help it feel more Star Warsey.

Don’t be ashamed to stick in familiar Star Wars elements like wookiees, R2s and 3POs, x-wings, an aspiring Jedi, stormtroopers. Simple visual cues that ground you in the familiar.
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Whill: Pathfinder is D&D 3.5 for people who don't want to give it up but like new suppliments. Mass Effect is a great series of games on PC/Consoles where there's a mix of ancient tech and the newly involved spacefaring humans. It had a bit of old things but all the human tech/environments were very new/shiny feeling. They had said on a couple of occasions that they pulled some of the feel from Star Wars.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JironGhrad wrote:
@Whill: Pathfinder is D&D 3.5 for people who don't want to give it up but like new suppliments. Mass Effect is a great series of games on PC/Consoles where there's a mix of ancient tech and the newly involved spacefaring humans. It had a bit of old things but all the human tech/environments were very new/shiny feeling. They had said on a couple of occasions that they pulled some of the feel from Star Wars.

I've heard of Pathfinder and Mass Effect, but I just have no experience with them. I've never played the Mass Effect computer game, but have a fan made RPG D6 adaptation that I've never read.

My comic shop expanded their retail space and became an FLGS too a couple years ago. After several months, they downsized RPGs to just D&D and Pathfinder. The owner told me it was because those are the only RPGs that sold well. (Now they have more space for board games and other types of games.) I had even bought a few FFG Star Wars books from them (at only 10% off retail and a lot more than I would have paid at Amazon) just to support their business, but that wasn't enough. That's when I found out the basic what Pathfinder was (OGL D&D 3.5). I had played in a few D&D 3.5 campaigns 2003-05 and found the system to be horrible so it's hard for me to appreciate Pathfinder's popularity. From what I hear, D&D 5 resolved a lot of complaints about D&D 4, but I guess that's not enough to make everyone forget about Pathfinder. I know d@mn well I have no interest in playing Pathfinder, so I never will get any experience with it.

Nuff said about the game system, but I'd still be interested in hearing about the Pathfinder setting or the plot of this campaign that was the basis of the Star Wars campaign.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: What makes Star Wars Star Wars? Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

So, what makes Star Wars Star Wars? One constant for my game is the Galactic Empire. Not always as the antagonists, but the Empire as a setting/era. Even if an adventure takes place outside of the Empire, the Empire is still the omnipresent backdrop, the main galactic power, with rebellions opposed to it. I like the prequels and TFA, they are in my personal canon, but for some reason I just have no interest in setting my game in those eras.


Very true. Whether its an overarching Galactic Empire or the corrupt Old republic, having an outlandishly large 'enemy' even in the backdrop' is part n parcel of what makes SW different from say BSG, SG or SW..
As far as settings, i prefer between prequels (rise of the Empire) and Rise of the rebellion time frames, but have done a few long running campaigns set right around the Warlord Zjinni time frame (3-5yrs post endor) with no issues.

Whill wrote:
What else? Star Wars alien species is a big one for me, and droids too. Blasters, heroic actions, good vs. evil, good and bad luck, planet hopping, high adventure, high stakes and epic scale are all important in my campaigns. Shoot-outs are a must, and I try to have a little space combat in most adventures. Chases are fairly frequent in my game - Sometimes the PCs are doing the chasing and other times they are being chased. It's not all action, but there are a least a few action sequences in every adventure. I can also echo the 'lived-in' universe that JironGhrad and bobenhotep mentioned.


For me a good game session hits
1 = at least one possibly 2 combats. Whether those are actual scripted combats or only potential ones.. one ground and one space..
2 = One RP scene with someone in 'power' whether its imperials at a customs inspection, meeting the local hutt, or negotiating that new power converter for your ship with the merchant.
3 = Lots of droids/aliens. Even if in the backround.
4 = Poverty! One of the biggest things that made rebellion games much easier to referee was how poor groups always were. When they have lots of credits, they can often 'buy' their way out of problems whether its in purchasing guns/armor/ships, upgrading them or in buying off opposition.

Whill wrote:
One more thing I wanted to comment on are Jedi and The Force. It seems a fairly common stance among Star Wars gamers that it is just not Star Wars without the Force, and some even say there must be at least one Force-user in every party. I love Jedi and The Force in general, but I disagree with this "quota" sentiment for the game. While most of my campaigns have had at least one Force-user, I have had multiple entire campaigns without any Force-using PCs or antagonists, and it still felt like Star Wars.


+100 there. Two of my longest running SW home games had not ONE jedi player.. Though in the 2nd of them, we eventually did have 2 pcs who went force like..
You don't always have to have them, and i also don't buy into the angle You always need a jedi either.
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