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Speed Rules and Ship/Vehicle Actions
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DarthOmega
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:59 am    Post subject: Speed Rules and Ship/Vehicle Actions Reply with quote

I was looking through the 1st edition version of the rules and noticed they don't have the more in depth movement rules that the 2nd edition has. Would there be any real harm done to the game balance-wise if I were to do away with the somewhat clunky (imo) movement/speed rules and just allow regular movement without the need to speed up or slow down in increments. The obvious exception would be keeping the rules for speeders (both land and air, and atmospheric flight in ships as well) and the like due to maintained speed and such.

My second question is if the group is in a ship, say a freighter, that has multiple stations for different systems, do the actions of say the person operating shields count as an action and thus applying MAPs to the person shooting from the turret, or the pilot making a check to fly around an asteroid?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On that 2nd one, nope. Just like by the rules, if the pilot does a full ship dodge, his activity does not impact the gunners shooting.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the benefit of having a crew. More things can be done at once and in faster succession.
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Tupteq
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
if the pilot does a full ship dodge, his activity does not impact the gunners shooting.


I'm using -3D to almost all actions onboard when vehicle performs full dodge. I think I found this somewhere, but now I don't remember the source.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-3d is a good compromise. Though i do remember several threads we have had on that subject where some felt that the pilot's roll should be applied to Their own gunners shooting out..
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather give a flat -10 and let them roll their full dice code.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This makes sense: when a number of D are subtractcted, you run the risk of reducing to 0 the ability of the crew to act.

I can understand some things being "too difficult" to succeed at for beginners, but even the possibility of a lucky shot is removedwhen the penalty is "#D" instead of just a static number.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One morre thing: if the pilot need not be concerned with shooting and shields etc... then he probably SHOULD be using full reactions every turn UNLESS his objective is to actully destroy the enemy fighter(s).

Since a full dodge prevents any other actions from being attempted, he can never execute a reversal or "break" away or otherwise escape the enemy ships. He's stuck in the fight until his gunners shoot down all persuers.

In any case, I don't have a problem with allowing a full dodge at a very small (or even no) penalty. Remember that being in a dominant position actually grants bonuses on the attack roll. A pilot who makes a full doddge can't even compete with the enemy pilot for posituonal advantage... he is basically just conceding that contest in exchange for an incrreased chance of survival for one round.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
One morre thing: if the pilot need not be concerned with shooting and shields etc... then he probably SHOULD be using full reactions every turn UNLESS his objective is to actully destroy the enemy fighter(s).

Since a full dodge prevents any other actions from being attempted, he can never execute a reversal or "break" away or otherwise escape the enemy ships. He's stuck in the fight until his gunners shoot down all persuers.

In any case, I don't have a problem with allowing a full dodge at a very small (or even no) penalty. Remember that being in a dominant position actually grants bonuses on the attack roll. A pilot who makes a full doddge can't even compete with the enemy pilot for posituonal advantage... he is basically just conceding that contest in exchange for an incrreased chance of survival for one round.


Additionally when doing a full dodge, one can't MOVE since you need to make a separate piloting roll to maneuver..
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't that sort of defy logic? "Ooops, full dodge... can't move..." *ship suddenly stops short*.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JironGhrad wrote:
Doesn't that sort of defy logic? "Ooops, full dodge... can't move..." *ship suddenly stops short*.

I think what he means is you can't make a move action when doing a full evade. That doesn't mean your ship doesn't move at all.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yup. When doing a full dodge, you are effectively staying in that same spot/barely moving, so in space combat, you stay in the SU you started in.. So if you were say trying to get to a specific area for hypering out, full dodging is actually worse for you as you don't gain any SU to that goal.
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Tupteq
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I allow to perform a move during a full dodge (for both characters and vehicles) as long as it's a free action. So, generally it's cautious movement (half of Move/Space per round). This allows to slowly move in certain direction, but the defense is a priority, so it's more like "two steps forward, one step back" approach.
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
yup. When doing a full dodge, you are effectively staying in that same spot/barely moving, so in space combat, you stay in the SU you started in.. So if you were say trying to get to a specific area for hypering out, full dodging is actually worse for you as you don't gain any SU to that goal.


I've always run it such that you can't make a speed change, since inertia in space is negligible. Likewise, shots taken from a ship dodging suffer the pilot's dodge die code as a penalty to hit (eg. 4D dodge = -4D to hit) caveating that I allow a pilot to roll at called value, so that a pilot might only roll 2D to dodge in order to better facilitate shots.

In air to air/space to space combat, you don't just zero speed; stopping requires retroactive thrust (or inertia in aerial flight). So logically, you break the cinema with the idea that motion isn't tied to dodge.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JironGhrad wrote:
garhkal wrote:
When doing a full dodge, you are effectively staying in that same spot/barely moving, so in space combat, you stay in the SU you started in.. So if you were say trying to get to a specific area for hypering out, full dodging is actually worse for you as you don't gain any SU to that goal.

I've always run it such that you can't make a speed change, since inertia in space is negligible...

In air to air/space to space combat, you don't just zero speed; stopping requires retroactive thrust (or inertia in aerial flight). So logically, you break the cinema with the idea that motion isn't tied to dodge.

Tupteq wrote:
I allow to perform a move during a full dodge (for both characters and vehicles) as long as it's a free action. So, generally it's cautious movement (half of Move/Space per round). This allows to slowly move in certain direction, but the defense is a priority, so it's more like "two steps forward, one step back" approach.

Allowing inertia to take over and just moving at a constant speed and direction would be the opposite of full evasion. You'd be an easy target. Evasion involves moving port, starboard, deck, overhead, accelerating and decelerating. I've always ruled that the net result of full evasion is up to cautious speed distance in the direction you want to go. But you moved around a lot in all the zigging and zagging.
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