Force Upgrade proposal

[RedFox]

As much as I love WEG D6 Star Wars, I've discovered that I'm not quite satisfied with the way that the Force is handled in it (not that I think D20 does any better job at it!).

Taking a page from the new D6 books put out by WEG (which I also don't love unreservedly, or I'd switch over to the new system for Star Wars gaming), I thought I'd change the Force in the following way:

Becoming Force Sensitive
Instead of the Yes/No Force Sensitive question, any character may be made Force Sensitive at character creation by allocating Attribute dice to a new Attribute called "Force Sensitive." This Attribute represents the raw Force potential of a character. Someone from the Skywalker bloodline, for example, would have a high Die Code in the Attribute, representing their natural power and connection to the Force.

Modifying Templates using this system is very simple. Simply take any "Skill dice" that were placed in the three original Force Skills (Control, Sense, and Alter) and place them in the "Force Sensitive" Attribute instead. Since Force Skills are bought with Attribute dice anyway, the character comes out evenly matched, point-wise.

A character may become Force Sensitive at any time by spending 20 CP to buy 1D in the Force Sensitive Attribute.

Becoming Skilled in the Force
Characters no longer buy powers. Instead, any character may attempt to use any power in any of the books, with GM approval. The GM should feel free to restrict or outright disallow the use of certain Force powers (such as esoteric, "lost" powers, or ancient Sith techniques) if it makes no logical sense that a character could attempt it.

Rather than rolling the Force Skills of Control, Sense, and Alter, a Force Sensitive character rolls their Force Sensitive Attribute dice, plus any dice that they have from the Skill. The difficulty to activate the power is equal to the highest difficulty that would have been necessary to succeed at a Force Skill check.

Example: A power in the book requires an Easy Sense roll and a Moderate Control roll to activate. Using this system, the player would roll Force Sensitive + any Skill in the power in an attempt to beat a Moderate difficulty.

What Skill? Why, a character can purchase any power (at the GM's discretion) as a Skill at twice the normal CP cost for Skills (which is doubled again if the character is trying to learn the Skill without instruction). Thus, characters improve their mastery of the Force by directly training their Skill in the use of favored powers. A Jedi could buy a Skill of "Lightsaber Combat" or "Far Seeing" and could even (at the GM's discretion) have a specialization.

Overall, I feel that this change simplifies Force abilities while also bringing it more into the standard D6 system, as well as better emulating the more over-the-top Jedi action of the prequel films and newer source material (such as Clone Wars). If you like the mechanic overall but would like to retain the old (more Original Trilogy-biased) difficulty of Force abilities, then simply impose a difficulty penalty for attempting to use Force powers unskilled.
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[Akari]

Wow... interesting concept! I would have to give it some thought how it would work out game balance-wise. It does make beginning characters a LOT more powerful...

However, I prefer letting a player aquire the powers one by one. It does give you more of a sense of acomplishment, I think. Also it makes it virtually impossible for a player to gain the force powers I don't really want in my campaign...

So I doubt I would go with this aproach, unless it is for a very specific sort of campaign, where everybody would play a Jedi. In that it could very well simplify a lot of things.

[Volar the Healer]

So there is only one force attribute, and each "power" becomes an advanced skill. At first reading, I think I like it. I'll chew on it for a bit.
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[RedFox]

[Firehawk0220]

[Krapou]

Redfox, this house rule seems pretty interresting !

Maybe it needs some balance but I think the idea is good ! 8)

[Volar the Healer]

OK, I've thought about it.

I like the rules as they are. I know, as director, I control what powers the Jedi get and what they don't, so Jedi don't get out of control in my campaigns. I also rigidly enforce the standard CP costs. I've heard some comments on this site suggesting that this is not true for all campaigns. Red Fox's idea may be just what these directors need;

Option 1) Have one Attribute -Force- then treat "powers" as skills. This would cause Jedi to expend more character points compared to WEG's system. This would definately slow the Jedi down.

Option 2) Treat Control, Sense, and Alter as attributes. Treat "powers" as skills. This would require a huge amount of character points.

Option 3) Treat Control, Sense, and Alter as attributes. Treat "powers" as variable cost skills. A skill requiring Contol costs a standard amount of CPs. A skill requiring Control and Sense would cost double CPs. A skill requiring Control, Sense, and Alter should be a harder skill to learn, so maybe it would cost triple CPs. This would require even more character points.

Red Fox said he wanted to "simplify Force abilities while also bringing it more into the standard D6 system". I think he's succeeded. He's also created a rule that allows Jedi to specialize by being particularly skilled with some powers and average in others.

I'm not sure what he means by "any character may be made Force Sensitive". It sound to me this means any character could become a Jedi. What does 'force sensitive' mean when "Characters no longer buy powers. Instead, ANY character may attempt to use ANY power in ANY of the books." Perhaps, only Jedi can become force sensitive under this house rule. There seems to be no distinction between a force sensitive and a force user...which works, as long as that's what's actually being said here.
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[RedFox]

[MA-3PO]

I'm digging this old thread up to ask if anyone's been using this Force variant? I am usually a strict WEG rules adherest but I must admit that if I were to ever change anything this might be something I would use. I've seen a lot of changes of the Force system proposed but most of them involve having to throw out Force using NPC stats. The great thing I like about your system is that it seems like it can plug right in and there are no huge changes needed.

How do you handle powers that formerly used different Force skills for effects? For example in Lightsaber Combat, Control and Sense die would be added to damage and lightsaber skill. If you are using the new Force attribute+skill how would you handle where the bonus goes? Would you leave it up to the player? For example, my Jedi has Force attribute of 2D and Lightsaber combat skill of 3D for a total of 5D. Would it be balanced if we said he could divide up this 5D any way he likes between lightsaber skill and damage?

EDIT- Now that I'm thinking about this more, another reason I like it is that it makes more sense even in the context of the original trilogy. It always bugged me when I saw Luke advancing in each film. I was always wondering "How the heck is he learning these new Force powers with no one to teach him? How did he become a Jedi by studying only a few weeks with Yoda and an even shorter time with Obi-wan?" If we look at the Force rules from your prospective it all suddenly becomes more feasible.

[Ankhanu]

Very interesting thread... it can even synergize with my house ruled Force system (perhaps I'll post it on here eventually). It nicely fits into some of the textual flavour given to certain Force Sensitive/User families, ie. being weak in telekineses for the Katarns(?), etc.; though they may have strong potential, they have low skill dice in that particular power....

Overall, I like this concept though.

One modification I might make, however, would be to retain Force Sensitive Yes/No and the costs to change that designation and to develop Force ability (20CP to switch from Non-Force Sensitive to Force Sensitive; 30CP for the first Die in your Force Sensitive Attribute). That way, Non-Force sensitive characters would remain just as they are in the standard rules, but it would allow for characters to be "sensitive" to the Force without really having a connection (ie. Force Sensitive in the actual system, but without Control/Sense/Alter) and gaining 1D in the Force Sensitive Attribute would represent a stronger connection and potential... The way I see it, there's a difference between potential sensitivity, or a twinge of a feeling and being able to actualize on that feeling.

[PsiberDragon]

Actually, this sounds somewhat like the Dathomir Witches...

Each force skill is exactly that: a Skill.

They don't use Control, Sense and Alter.

They DO still use prereqs, though.

So, you could have a Dathomiri with LS Combat of 4D, Hibernation Trance 3D+2, Absorb/Dissipate Energy 2D, etc...
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[Ankhanu]

Yeah, very much like the Dathomirians, except for the addition of the Force Sensitive "attribute" and the requirement of a teacher for gaining a new power/spell.

I can see the power/skill list becoming far too long for the alloted space on a character sheet with this method though

[MA-3PO]

I think a few of the powers could be combined to shorten the list. For example perhaps Control Disease and Detoxify Poison could be combined into one skill.

I also think not every power should be able to be used "unskilled". If a power has prereqs maybe the character should have at least one pip or die in each of the prereqs before a character is able to try or learn the advanced power.

EDIT - I find that Reduce Injury, Remain Concious, and Resist Stun are all similar. They have Control Pain as a prereq. Does anyone have any ideas on if and how these skills could be combined?

Same with Control Disease, Detoxify Poison, (very easy to combine) and Remove Fatigue might fit with these or the prior. RF has Accelerate Healing as a prereq which is why I might lean towards the latter.

[Caladar]

I can see this idea having alot of potential. The use of a Force Sensitive attribute instead of a simple Y/N has several good gaming benefits.

During creation, a character who wishes to be force sensitive must allocate one of their starting D to this attribute. They may allocate a maximum of 3D. This represents their basic affinity to the force. If a non FS character wishes to become FS, the starting level of 1D costs the normal 20CP.

This attribute may be increased through normal means, but could also be decreased in certain special circumstances (probably not permentantly though, unless the player really deserved it).

During play, the fact that a given person is FS would usually be handled in the same way it is now, but the new attribute would have one extra benefit:

Imagine a boy, strong in the force, who for some strange reason must win a race against much more experienced opponents. He has 4D in the skill involved, and 3D in Force Sensitivity. Normally the PC wouldn't have a chance, even a force point wouldn't help over a long race. But not to fear, our GM knows that the force works in mysterious ways, and guides the hands of our young racer. In game terms, his FS dice can be added to his skill dice, giving our hero 7D for the race.

How does this not unbalance a game? Are force points needed anymore?

First, force points double a given code, and as a character gets more experienced their skill codes increase. So to does the bonus from force points. FS bonus doesn't increase, so will be less effective. Remember that most characters with FS will only have 1 or 2D (maybe enough to help a GM get his players through)

Secondly, and very importantly, force points are used by decision of the PC. FS bonus is the GMs choice. And the player doesn't even have to know. Similar to uncertainty dice, without player knowledge. This limits the chances tof FS being abused, but also allows FS to mean more than a few vague hints and the chance to become Jedi.

A bit of a ramble for my first post, but hopefully an interesting idea.

[Caladar]

I should have mentioned that we're using a system like the one that started this thread, and overall it's given us some interesting results.

We allow up to 3D to go into the Force attribute, in the same way that you could you 3D originally to give use 1D in C,S and A. This gives a measure of Force sensitivity (note that you cannot start out as a force senstive without using at least 1 attribute die, all things have a price).

As with the normal system, powers cannot be used untrained.

A new character can allocate some or all of their starting skill D to powers in the normal way. We have tried a couple of cost rules but have settled on paying for powers as specialisations. Without this characters were really only able to progress in 2 or 3 powers, or risk being left behind in skill levels.

eg normally to increase control from 5D to 5D+1 costs 5 CP with a teacher. This increased All your control powers. With our current system, a character with 2D Force and 3D in a power needs 2 CP to increase. Spending the same amount as the origianl PC, we can only inprove 2 powers.

Power development is slower resulting in less unbalancing Jedi-trickery in game, while still allowing the potential to be great in the players desired areas.

Another welcome outcome was the marked difference in our 2 Jedi wannabes. Previously our Failed Jedi and his gambler pupil looked almost the same form a power/force perspective (expect for the difference in C/S and A). But under this system they are growing in different directions due to their choices of powers to upgrade. The failed jedi seems to be more cerebal focusing on healing/information and support type powers, while the gambler is more a man of action and loves using Jump and TK to upset things.

From balancing viewpoint, we haven't had to redo anything yet. The jedi-type PCs start a little stronger in a few powers than they would have, but inprove those powers at a slower overall rate. The only abuse we have thought of so far is the person who ups just one power. They would quickly become quite powerful in that area, but be pretty useless in all the rest. It wouldn't take a genius GM to sort that out though, and the PC would be as useless as any other with a specialisation that doesn't apply to a situation.

Feedback always wanted, as we know others will think of things we haven't.