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Advanced Engineering Skill Application
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Ning Leihrec
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 5:39 pm    Post subject: Advanced Engineering Skill Application Reply with quote

Is there anything in the RAW governing the use of adv. eng. skills? Specifically starship engineering. Is there an actual game mechanic for determining the quality of the vessel designed?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that i ever have seen. Heck other than the base engineering info in Hide outs and Strongholds, and the stuff on Bacta tanks, there has never to my knowledge been much ON (A) skills mentioned.
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I see them they are left up to GM whim, and only exist to suck up PC cash reserves. Twisted Evil
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really. IN sparks i see quite a few people take
(A) software design
(A) Encryption
(A) Armor engineering
(A) Blaster engineering
(A) Force resistance (A sparks made up advanced skill for willpower)
(A) Medicine.
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Not really. IN sparks i see quite a few people take
(A) software design
(A) Encryption
(A) Armor engineering
(A) Blaster engineering
(A) Force resistance (A sparks made up advanced skill for willpower)
(A) Medicine.


Interesting, do you have a wright up on Force Resistance?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's actually called force deterrence.

K. Force Deterrence - Advanced (Knowledge)
Force Deterrence is an advanced skill under Knowledge with the base skill of Willpower. To learn ‘Force Deterrence’ the trainee must have a minimum Willpower of 5D. It will take the standard 2 sessions (2 Seminars or 1 Interactive) to learn and will cost 7,000 credits like any other advanced skill. In addition the player must schedule a personal initiative (PI) for the first session to find a trainer. This is because the trainer must have specialized knowledge or use of the Force. The advanced skill starts at 1D like other advanced skills. Unlike other advanced skills it is used ONLY for resisting Force powers and does NOT add to basic Willpower rolls unless the Willpower roll itself is used to resist Force powers. ‘Force Deterrence’ is used to resist Force powers of a mental nature that allow resistance with Control or Perception rolls (receptive telepathy, sense force potential, farseeing, projective telepathy, dim other’s senses, affect mind, control mind, illusion, memory wipe, and mind rape). This power does not help with Force powers manifesting a physical effect (force push, injure/kill, telekinesis, force lightning, inflict pain, and telekinetic kill).
Special Notes:
a) Keep in mind that the Force power ‘Force of Will’ uses Willpower to boost the protection number. With ‘Force Deterrence’ the target would make a Willpower plus Force Deterrence roll for the protection number.
b) There is a specialization under Willpower called ‘Force Resistance’ and this is only used on Force powers that allow Willpower rolls for resistance already.
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, that is interesting. I may have to borrow from that, I was thinking of creating a Willpower based (A) skill Dedicated Mental Discipline, to reflect meditation techniques that allow a greater degree of control over ones own mind and body, without Force sensitivity. A character could, to a limited extent, mimic some Control Powers. Burst of Speed, Concentration, Contort/Escape, Control Pain, Enhance Attribute, Force of Will, Remain Conscious, Remove Fatigue & Resist Stun. These would function at 1/3 the effectiveness (rounded down) of their Force Power counterparts.
A second idea I was playing with was to allow a character with this (A) skill access to the same Force Power IF Force sensitivity is purchased after character creation and Control is purchased.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To go the less crunchy path, I allow the regular non-advanced Willpower skill to resist Force powers.

Quote:
"Are you going to use one of your Jedi mind tricks on me?"
"They only work on the weak-minded."

"The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded."

Logically, the Force would have a weak influence on the strong-minded (powerfully-willed).

Perception has been used to resist the Force since 1e, before the Willpower skill officially existed. Before 2e, I house-ruled the basic idea of the Willpower skill as an inherent quality of the Perception base attribute (like a built-in skill that can't be raised), based on Obi-Wan's dialogue in ANH. When 2e came out, I loved the idea of an actual Willpower skill, but I moved the skill to under Perception where the Willpower ability had already existed in my game for years. Especially in light of Anakin's line in AotC, it seems to me that regular people can resist the Force without advanced training to so.

Just piping in on a somewhat relevant discussion.
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Ning Leihrec
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always thought willpower belonged in Perception. I use it for all manner of mental, Force, & even some physical checks. IMO it should be an advanced Per skill with no prerequisites, starting at base Per. So basically a special PER skill commonly held by all but improved at x2 the cp cost to reflect its importance and to keep the game balanced.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a couple of ways I can see an (A) Engineering skill being used.

The first way would be to modify existing equipment beyond what a repair check can do. For example, changing which guns are on a starship or installing a hyperdrive on a ship which does not come with one.

For example, an engineer might be able to design and build a special X-Wing with a capitol scale weapon system for special, deep strike hit-and-run missions against star destroyers.

Another possibility might be designing armor which retains it's protective qualities and reduces the Dex penalty at the same time.

Other, more mundane benefits can be achieved as well, for example, doubling the fuel range on a speeder by re-engineering the fuel system(s) on the vehicle (sort of like how modern vehicles have cylinder management where they run on only half the cylinders during cruise, etc).
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Ning Leihrec
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are all cool examples, Naaman, and it makes sense to use Eng to modify existing gear beyond what repair allows. However, I'm interested in rules that cover the design and construction of ships and equipment from the ground up. Doesn't seem like they exist, so I've been working some up myself. I'll share them once they make some kind of sense. Any suggestions appreciated.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is an interesting thought Namman. Normally you can only use the repair skill to modify something 1d+2 above it's base listing. So perhaps to go beyond that, it needs engineering to redesign it for that higher level.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ning Leihrec wrote:
I've always thought willpower belonged in Perception. I use it for all manner of mental, Force, & even some physical checks. IMO it should be an advanced Per skill with no prerequisites, starting at base Per. So basically a special PER skill commonly held by all but improved at x2 the cp cost to reflect its importance and to keep the game balanced.

I always justified Willpower as a Knowledge skill by saying it represented the character's understanding of himself, whereas Perception is about a character's understanding of others.

Perception makes sense to oppose some Force powers, but certainly not all of them. TK Kill and other attacks inflict physical damage, and should be resisted by Strength. I allow Willpower or Perception to resist other powers depending on the circumstances, specifically whether or not the character is aware that he is the target of a Force power.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ning Leihrec wrote:
Those are all cool examples, Naaman, and it makes sense to use Eng to modify existing gear beyond what repair allows. However, I'm interested in rules that cover the design and construction of ships and equipment from the ground up. Doesn't seem like they exist, so I've been working some up myself. I'll share them once they make some kind of sense. Any suggestions appreciated.


Embarassed

Haha! I figured all that stuff would be handled "off camera" and a character with engineering skills could just dream something up and make it happen. The more it departs from what is already out there (how powerful or strange or unique it is), the greater the difficulty to make it a reality.

In any case, I suppose using existing items as a baseline to determine what is generally achievable would be a good place to start. Also, there is a great thread in the tools section about designing starship weapons which might also provide some food for thought.

The biggest obstacle I see isn't so much the engineering skill, but the funding for R&D. It seems like to design something completely new would require either a very wealthy character or else sponsorship from some corporation or organization.
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Ning Leihrec
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cost is definitely a major factor, if not access to proper factories, or comparable manufacturing equipment. Definitely need a Tony Stark type behind the scenes or shady access to construction resources.
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