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are their rules on difficulties for shooting a moving target
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:
I can see that you are the Pit madman...

Well...
Lewis Carroll wrote:
“But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here.”


Quote:
I sometimes take relative speed into account when determining difficulties or bonuses/penalties, but I never math it out. The net result is usually accurate enough for me, but that's because I'm lazy and so are my players. Embarassed

A big part of my penchant for coming up with a rule for everything is a recognition of one of my weaknesses as a GM: I don't think well on my feet. As such, I tend to plan ahead on the off-chance that it becomes an issue.

In this case, though, the idea of something moving quickly being harder to hit than something moving slowly seems obvious enough, yet WEG never addressed it.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another point to consider is that the speed of the shooter will also affect the Difficulty to Hit. After all, from the perspective of the shooter, the target is moving towards him at whatever velocity he is moving. Thus, an X-Wing strafing a ground target at Cruising Speed will be more accurate than an A-Wing strafing the same target at Full Speed, since the A-Wing would be moving 3x faster.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Error
Captain
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Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
A big part of my penchant for coming up with a rule for everything is a recognition of one of my weaknesses as a GM: I don't think well on my feet. As such, I tend to plan ahead on the off-chance that it becomes an issue.

In this case, though, the idea of something moving quickly being harder to hit than something moving slowly seems obvious enough, yet WEG never addressed it.

I like the fact that the D6 SYSTEM can accommodate rules alterations/introductions/negations like it does. Other systems can't handle "on-the-fly" or even "thoroughly considered" changes nearly as well. Designing alterations to d20 games requires you know the entire catalog, and that means you have to buy the BOOKS...

Relative speed is just one of those things that invites "Real World" speculation. I have to check my motives sometimes. Ahem, let me rephrase...I need to go at everything at CRUISING SPEED.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, looking at the chart I gen'd up on the previous page, even the fastest starfighters would only be looking at a maximum penalty of -2D when firing at targets while flying at Full Speed. Most ships flying at Cruising Speed would be unaffected; only the TIE Interceptor and A-Wing are fast enough at Cruising Speed to illicit a -1D speed penalty.

The fastest possible combination in the official stats is the Plexus Droid Vessel (Space 15) and an A-Wing performing a head-to-head. The Space 12 A-Wing would have to be going Full Speed (24 SUs / round), while the PDV would have to be traveling at All-Out (60 SUs / round), with a combined closing speed of 84 SUs in a single round. Apart from expanding the chart up to that level, the simplest method would be to combine the To Hit penalties from both craft (-2D for the A-Wing and -5D for the PDV, for a combined penalty of -7D)

I had considered making two different charts, one for a target crossing laterally and one for targets either closing or running away, but I'm inclined to stick with just the one, with the reasoning that the difficulty of calculating a deflection shot will be roughly equal to the difficult of calculating the timing of a head-to-head shot due to the deceptiveness of high closing speeds. So, at least when using this chart for starship and vehicle combat, the most stable firing position when both shooter and target are moving is for the shooter to be on the target's tail, shooting from behind.

For personal combat, you could just treat the character's Move that round as the equivalent of SUs on the chart, so a character with a Move of 10 could move 40 meters per round at All-Out, thus generating a -3D penalty to Hit.

This plays well with the MFTAS system in the helmet of Stormtrooper Armor, which would cancel out the first 1D of penalty for any moving target.

It also works well with Dodge, in that while a character may be harder to hit while running at Full or All-Out Speed, he has a better chance of not being hit by Dodging.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, to summarize, here is the rule I'm thinking:
    Space or Character Movement / Atmosphere Speed Range* = Fire Control Penalty
    11-20 / 400-799 = -1D
    21-30 / 800-1,199 = -2D
    31-40 / 1,200-1,599 = -3D
    41-50 / 1,600-1,999 = -4D
    51-60 / 2,000-2,399 = -5D
    60+ / 2,400+ = -6D

    +1D Penalty Modifier for any Target moving toward or away from the Shooter (reduces Fire Control penalty by 1D).

The basic system is pretty straight forward; calculate the Target's total distance moved that round (in meters or SUs), then compare that number to the chart to generate a Fire Control Difficulty modifier.

The basic system assumes a stationary Shooter and a moving Target. If the Shooter is moving as well, use the following:
    -If the Shooter is moving toward the Target, calculate the Shooter's total Move that round and apply it to the Table. The resulting penalty is stacked with the Target's movement penalty.

    -If the Shooter is moving toward the Target while the Target is moving away from the Shooter (i.e. the Shooter is on the Target's tail and pursuing), calculate the Shooter's total Move that round and apply it to the Table. The resulting penalty is subtracted from the Target's movement penalty.

    -It is important to note that the Movement Penalty on To Hit rolls can never be less than 0D (i.e. a moving target can never be less difficult to hit than a stationary one). In the event of a Shooter moving faster than a Target, the lesser penalty (the Target's) is subtracted from the Shooter's instead.

I'm primarily picturing this rule for personal, vehicular and starfighter combat, which is where the vast majority of combat happens for PCs.

Thoughts?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Error
Captain
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Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ That's a fairly elegant way of doing it; and D6 is all about ELEGANCE.

Let's assume a fairly involved SPACE BATTLE that includes at least six vehicles (probably fighters), and let's also assume that each of the six vehicles, at any given moment, are going different speeds at different angles (including Z-axis values) throughout the entire engagement.

Does your system help to clarify such a situation, and make it easier to play through?

I ask because the moment a rule (RAW or otherwise) interferes with the "fun value" is when it needs to be rechecked as either necessary or superfluous.
_________________
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While working on this, I hit a wall when trying to work out detailed rules for combat between more than two ships (specifically, operating with a Wingman). At the moment, my conjecture is that any combat involving multiple ships is going to break down into a series of one-on-one battles, where having an NPC wingman simply counts as a coordination bonus. Anything more complicated than that is going to require a degree of ad-libbing on the part of the GM insofar as opportunity shots, where a target suddenly crosses a character's bow, allowing them to take a snapshot.

In the case of a battle where multiple characters are piloting starfighters in combat, cooperation is essential, just like in real world fighter combat. The general rule of thumb is that two fighters operating together are 10x as effective as a fighter operating alone. A prime example is the Thach Weave from WWII, invented by naval aviator Jimmy Thach. Basically, if an enemy fighter got on the tail of either of a pair of fighters operating together, the engaged fighter would turn across the nose of his wingman, opening the pursuer to a deflection shot from the side. If the shot missed, the engaged fighter would turn back the other direction, drawing the enemy fighter around for another attempt at a deflection shot. The enemy fighter's only real option was to disengage and try again.

ANH has some good examples of cooperative tactics over the Death Star. Notice how the X-Wing pilots would "scratch each other's backs"; if a pilot had a TIE on his tail, he could lead the TIE into a position of vulnerability where the TIE could be attacked by another X-Wing, either from behind or from some unexpected angle.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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