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Basically, Rambo
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:37 am    Post subject: Basically, Rambo Reply with quote

One of my players is in a tight spot, and is preparing a new character just in case the old one dies early in the next section. His experiences in the Freedom For Edan campaign thus far have been largely guerilla warfare in the jungle; therefore, it's not entirely unsurprising he thought up this character. (There are a few extra skills than normal for a starting character, as we're playing with a rule that lets the PCs put as many CP into improving new characters as they put into the old one, to 'keep up' with the other higher-level legacy characters they'll be joining).

My narrator sense warns against this as unbalanced- but I can't put my finger on a definite objection. And, much as he's shortchanging himself in all matters technical, perhaps there is a balance- game-altering-superman on the ground, but useless on a starship. Still, I wanted to run it by the experienced GMs here for a second opinion.

Race: Male Devaronian

Dexterity: 4D
Dodge: 6D
Blaster: 5D
Blaster Specialization: Blaster Rifle: 6D
Melee: 5D
Running: 5D

Knowledge: 4D

Mechanical: 1D

Perception: 4D
Hide: 5D

Strength: 4D

Technical: 1D
First Aid: 4D



In addition, he wanted to add two more specializations...
Melee Specialization: Vibro-Knife: 6D
Hide Specialization: Vibro-Knife: 6D+2

I am on the fence about whether either of these is an acceptable specialization; specializing in concealing a specific object, perhaps. But Melee (or Melee combat, once we stop playing with simplified rules): Vibroknife seems to essentially be a specialization in knife-fighting... which seems perhaps a little too broad for a specialization.

Again, I wanted to get y'all's thoughts. Smile
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Theodrim
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: Basically, Rambo Reply with quote

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
...His experiences in the Freedom For Edan campaign thus far have been largely guerilla warfare in the jungle...


So, where's our horn-head brochacho's points in survival? Seems a bit important for a guerilla.
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had to guess, the nature of the game keeping them pretty well supplied (raiding one convoy after another) has prevented the necessity; and with 4D Knowledge, it's already pretty decent. He was considering Tactics as a skill to improve, though I disparaged it- as any results would be largely-dependent on my poor grasp of tactics. Wink

Also, the Rambo thing was pretty much my interpretation, not his stated intent. Smile I'm just pop-psychology guessing the reasons for his stat-choices.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grenades and Demolition are possibilities. Thrown Weapons could be handy too, since he wants to play with knives. Running, since jungle fighters tend to be leg infantry.

Also, you get the most bang for your buck on specializations if you define them as broadly as possible. I'd suggest he specialize in Knives instead, which will allow him to use vibro-knives, as well.
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm... I was looking more in the 'should I allow him to get away with this?' vein rather than suggestions for improving his power-base... Wink

So, as a GM, you'd allow a specialization in knife-fighting, then?
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tetsuoh
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By raw he can specialize in a weapon type or model.

Knives includes the vibroknife because it is a knife, as well as the vibrodagger and vibroshiv it does not include the vibrosword or vibrorapier or vibroaxe - or he can go specifically vibroknife or even down to his favorite brand of vibroknife. Hell I have had people specialize in the Knifes they themselves make.

Melee Weapons: My Knives. Lmao

Technically with how vague the rules are he could specialize in vibroweapons in general, considering vibroweapons are by no means the main stable of melee weapons in star wars, I see it. But I would still view it with distaste. I tend to to stick to the classic weapon types.

Just as he could go by company for his knowledge on a technology, or by type of tech.

But ultimately it is up to you what you allow.

And there is no way he's Rambo.

Rambo knew how to fly a chopper good enough to outrun a huey, knew how to make explosive arrowheads (that is both demolitions AND build projectile weapon folks 8)), and not only did he have survival, he probably had points in numerous other skills as well, such as languages, firearms repair, vehicle repair, and the specializations hide: jungle and tactics: guerrilla warfare.

He is if anything, because of his blaster spec is rifle and his hide - a sniper.
And you definitely want to know how to hide your knife as a sniper.
If you get caught and taken prisoner, them not knowing you got a knife in your boot sole can lead to you getting out.


Last edited by tetsuoh on Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair point. My thread-title-to-get-attention has clearly backfired. Consider this retitled 'so basically, a sniper...' Wink
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tetsuoh
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes you wonder though - does HE even realize that is what he created???

I'm betting not - most people don't truelly realize what they made unless someone else sees and says something.

Like when I went to make a survival expert and was informed I was spec force scout lmao.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tetsuoh wrote:

He is if anything, because of his blaster spec is rifle and his hide - a sniper.
And you definitely want to know how to hide your knife as a sniper.
If you get caught and taken prisoner, them not knowing you got a knife in your boot sole can lead to you getting out.


If he was making a sniper, he should have had search AND sneak, not hide.

Quote:
as we're playing with a rule that lets the PCs put as many CP into improving new characters as they put into the old one, to 'keep up' with the other higher-level legacy characters they'll be joining).


To the OP. Could you explain this rule more?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might also be helpful to see his 'expenditures', as to where they went.

Also i take it you allow them to assign their 18D as they see fit? Cause it looked like he deliberatly made a combat monkey.
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
To the OP. Could you explain this rule more?


Essentially, we track 3 character point totals... total earned by the character (for a sparks-esque advancement of rank mechanic), total available currently (obviously, the most commonly-useful number), and total spent on character improvements- on the assumption that most players spend relatively equal CP on improvements, using this number (and letting that same number of CP be spent improving skills in new character creation) will allow the PC to create a new replacement character that is of roughly equivalent power level to the existing PCs- lest anyone who died be stuck at permanent lower power levels than their peers. It's a house rule- but one designed to ensure that players don't get left behind, stuck as a fresh-faced weakling among a group of powerhouses.

garhkal wrote:
It might also be helpful to see his 'expenditures', as to where they went.


Sure. Starting 7D into skills (there is a 1D bonus from another house rule):
Dodge: +2D = 6D
Blaster: +1D = 5D
Hide: +1D = 5D
Melee +1D = 5D
Running +1D = 5D

And splitting the alst one into three specializations:
Melee Specialization Vibro-Knife: +1 = 6D (Total for Vibroknife)
Blaster Specialization Blaster Rifle +1 = 6D(Total for Blaster Rifle)
Hide Specialization Vibro-Knife: +1 = 6D (Total for Hiding a Vibroknife)

In addition, using the 25 CP that had been sunk into the previous character (as per the house rule above):
First Aid: +18CP = 4D
Hide Vibro-Knife: +6CP = 6D+2
(Plus 1 CP left over, unused)


garhkal wrote:
Also i take it you allow them to assign their 18D as they see fit? Cause it looked like he deliberatly made a combat monkey.


Yes, I do. And yeah- after two combat-related PC deaths (albeit the first one deliberate) and one PC&NPC battle dual-incapacitation (necessitating one of them being left behind on the battlefield, as only one PC was there, under fire, to get them out), I suspect a combat monkey is a reactionary, 'gotta guard against this happening to me!' scenario (especially as this player IS the PC under fire trying to evac one of his friends off the battlefield, and is creating a backup character in case he very quickly fails and dies). To be fair, this is one of two options he's trying to decide between- the other being a high-dexterity Jawa tech (with repair skills out the wazoo and a few token combat-survival skills) who lacks both strength and perception, so he seems to be looking to create a highly-specialized, 'stats to one extreme' character, and this Devaronian is only one of the options.
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with garkhal that this is a TOTAL combat monkey. That said, it seems that the way you run your games allows your players to make very highly specialized characters; quite honestly, that's fine. You want your players to enjoy the characters they create.

I do agree that survival should receive some points, as well as some of the other skills listed as being particularly Rambo-esque; perhaps as the GM you might encourage this by spreading out the convoys more. For a while, perhaps all they come upon are small scouting parties, which takes away their steady stream of supplies. Add to that attacks by local predators, which will further drain their resources; in that set of circumstances, they'll need to start relying on their knowledge of how to survive in the wild, and of how to improvise, repair their gear, and innovate.

I know you came into this wondering if he was overpowered, and I think that's simply because his character is so very heavily skewed toward the combat arts. I do think you should encourage him to change the vibro-blade specialty to knives, which would give him more bang for his buck...plus he won't be left in a lurch when, after several weeks in the jungle, after his power cells are all gone, and all he's been able to scrounge are a couple knives he got from some scouts he took out.

Another way you could make him branch out, if you wish to do so, would be to introduce this drought of supply-laden convoys, then have the enemies they DO encounter be planted specifically to be looking for them, and arm them with silenced slugthrowers and have them lacing the terrain with booby traps and such. Sure, that might make you seem like the devil for a while, but it would be a way to expand the party's skill base.

Hopefully, anyway...

I do like that you allow new characters to be created on par with the existing characters in the party; being left behind always sucks.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While that is true, being "left behind" sucks, it also doesn't make sense that everyone comes in at the same level all the time, as it almost is akin to them just 'rebooting from last save point' just with a different build.
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
While that is true, being "left behind" sucks, it also doesn't make sense that everyone comes in at the same level all the time, as it almost is akin to them just 'rebooting from last save point' just with a different build.


Essentially, yes. But not completely. They've lost their equipment, progress toward rank, any free-spending character points...

It's not ideal, but when the characters are killed by a difficult situation, it doesn't seem right to 'punish' the player for that; and if I brought them in at a starting level, it seems as if they would always be perpetually behind. This may be taking it a little too easy on them, but I couldn't think of a better way to not screw them over just because a killer cyborg with 6D dodge and 5D strength shot them in the head, or somesuch. Smile (But I am open to suggestions; I could always make this a 'Introductory Adventure Set campaign' rule only, with new-character rules being different once the training wheels are off in subsequent adventures).
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Theodrim
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
If I had to guess, the nature of the game keeping them pretty well supplied (raiding one convoy after another) has prevented the necessity; and with 4D Knowledge, it's already pretty decent.


Honestly, I'd still contend survival would be necessary as there are more important aspects to it than simply "living off the land". RoE goes into detail about this, but it's also a matter of detecting spoiled food and water, knowing how to keep it from spoiling in the rough, avoiding toxic plants and animals, avoiding leaving tracks, finding and constructing shelter absent prefab stuff, even to a certain degree scrounging up medicinals absent first-aid kits (hell, I tend to be exceptionally forgiving when it comes to stuff like this, but I'd even allow a survival check at higher difficulty to substitute for first-aid treating wounds in the wilderness), watching and predicting weather patterns to avoid (or prepare for) inclement weather, minimizing and negating the effects of exposure and preventing ancillary medical conditions (dehydration, heat exhaustion, hypothermia, parasites), ...the list really does go on.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, especially when lives could be on the line. What's more costly to someone like this Devaronian, knowing how to avoid something like intestinal parasites, or wasting a medkit to get rid of them? Raiding for supplies, however regular, is still a risk that can be mediated with preparation.

Survival is a key enough skill that in a game centered around the wilderness, I wouldn't go without it. 4D is decent if you're going to be rolling every once in a while, but waging a guerrilla campaign would be invoking those checks constantly (at least one check per day). I would really suggest trading in a die of first aid to buy survival: jungle up to 6D.
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