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Hypermatter
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As part of our general discussion of hyperspace and Astrogation, I thought I'd give this topic a bump.
Whill wrote:
In the real world, dark matter is concentrated near about everywhere normal matter is in the observable universe, and there is a lot more dark matter than normal matter (about 85% of all matter is dark matter). In SW, normal realspace matter having a gravity shadow in hyperspace is already a danger to FTL hyperspace travel, so you would think that hypermatter's own gravity would be a much more significant factor than normal realspace matter.

If hypermatter exists in varying concentrations, it's possible that it acts more as an impediment to hyperspace travel than an obstacle. I'm picturing hypermatter creating a drag effect on ships traveling through hyperspace; the greater the density, the greater the drag. Add in the "clumping" effect, with hypermatter density increasing near planets and stars, and it becomes a usable technobabble explanation as to the hazards of jumping too far inside a gravity well, as "patches" of hypermatter create drag or otherwise take ships even slightly off-course, thus messing up Astrogation routes.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giving this a bump again, since we are discussing ways in which hyperspace jumps can go off course. As I stated above, one possibility is hypermatter particle density in hyperspace, not enough to cause damage, but enough to produce drag, which then makes a ship go slower than its inertial guidance (or the deep space / hyperspace equivalent) thinks it is. As a result, any change of course in hyperspace would be made too soon, thus throwing the ship off course.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giving this another bump due to some reading I've done recently. I had originally pictured Hypermatter as being analogous to the real-world oil industry, particularly the deep-sea oil aspect. However, it has parallels with the deep-sea liquid natural gas industry, as well. If hypermatter can be processed and refined for use in normal space, it would have to be stored in specially designed containers, much like how LNG carriers transport liquid natural gas in pressurized tanks, where the LNG is maintained at -140 degrees C. The necessity of maintaining such an extreme environment is far more analogous to that needed to store hypermatter than that of simple oil tankers.

Another aspect I've read up on recently is the Floating Production, Storage and Offloading aspect of the deep sea oil industry, where oil and LNG are processed aboard massive ships or platforms at sea, as opposed to refineries on shore. Considering the potential devastation of a hypermatter detonation on a planet's surface, processing it in the depths of space makes a lot of sense. This also opens the door even wider for something along the lines of the Nostromo from Aliens, towing a massive, automated refinery through space, except that, rather than refining minerals, this is refining hypermatter.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random thought, but I'm not quite sure where else I would put this...

Hypermatter presents some complications insofar as integrating the new material with the old EU. Specifically, the fuel augmenting equipment described in Tramp Freighters all seem to be loosely designed around a Fusion Reactor system, what with absorbing solar energy, scooping up a planet's atmosphere, etc.

I have encountered advocates of the Hard Sci-Fi interpretation of Star Wars who have said that fusion reactor systems don't generate sufficient power to do what we see ships in the SWU do. However, if all reactors in the SWU were hypermatter-based, a lot of that tech would be thrown out, as none of it really fits with hypermatter (can't really absorb/recharge hypermatter from solar energy or from scooping up a planet's atmosphere).

I've been mulling over this off and on, and have ultimately decided to go with the sci-fi handwave of "hyper-advanced fusion reactors" or some such to justify keeping what we see in GG6 and other sources, existing parallel to the Hypermatter Reactors powering Capital Ships and other large installations.

I'm also thinking that this could be the dividing line between Starfighter and Capital Ship, in that only Capital Ship Scale vessels can be fitted with a Hypermatter Reactor. This could be a decent explanation for ships like the Skipray Blastboat or the Assault Shuttle, in that, despite their small size, they managed to fit in a Hypermatter Reactor system which provides much greater power, at the cost of increased expense and decreased endurance.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weren't the TIE Fighter "wings" described as solar panels at one point? Maybe I'm dreaming that.

Anyway, do we really need the scoops and solar power tech of GG6? I've never ran or played in a game with ships that had them, so it seems to be going out your way just to maintain something really obscure in one old source.

Another option is, keep the options but they do not provide main power. They could be just for emergency power, like extending life support.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Weren't the TIE Fighter "wings" described as solar panels at one point? Maybe I'm dreaming that.

They were, but I viewed them more as compact solar ionization collectors (along with other functions, as discussed here).

Quote:
Anyway, do we really need the scoops and solar power tech of GG6? I've never ran or played in a game with ships that had them, so it seems to be going out your way just to maintain something really obscure in one old source.

It's up to personal choice, and the rules for those add-on systems were never properly updated from 1E when they yanked the Fuel Cell rules from 2E. Personally, I think a lot of that tech would be better suited to a Scout campaign, but they'd also be a lot more useful in a more fuel consumption intensive system like my Endurance Dice House Rule.

Quote:
Another option is, keep the options but they do not provide main power. They could be just for emergency power, like extending life support.

I had considered that as well, but I wanted to keep the utility of it actually being able to recharge the ship. I've even come up with a couple variants: the Mag-Scoop (basically a Scoop that can work in space) and the Solar Sail Drive which combines the recharging ability of the Solar Converter with limited propulsive ability.

And in the end, plenty of sci-fi settings go with fusion reactors to run hyperdrives, shields, etc, so there's nothing out of the ordinary for including them in SWU.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for including links to old threads forgotten about. My old brain needs it...
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Thanks for including links to old threads forgotten about. My old brain needs it...

Mine too, which is one of the reasons I made my Index. Laughing

Of course, now you have me wondering whether hypermatter-powered ships could use a hyperscoop to recharge their drives while in hyperspace...
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, with regard to what I posted here, my thoughts on hypermatter are expanding in some new directions. Up until now, I've been picturing hypermatter as a single "type" of matter that exists in varying degrees of density throughout the galaxy, corresponding to proximity to gravity wells.

However, I've never quite been able to shake the possible scenario of having "clumps" of hypermatter existing in deep space that increase the difficulty of hyperspace travel in those areas (which in turn contributes to the proliferation of known hyperspace routes across the galaxy, by restricting travel primarily to those areas that are clearer of said "clumps").

The problem, however, is that if hypermatter is dark matter (as originally theorized in this post), then it will react with gravity, and will thus tend to gather more strongly in areas where gravity is already present, near planets and stars, and not the vast emptiness of deep space.

What I'm wondering at the moment is, is it possible that there are multiple kinds of hypermatter, not all of which interact with gravity in the same way? I'm mostly looking for a way to justify a type of hypermatter that would tend to congregate more in deep space, away from existing gravity wells.

No real thoughts beyond that at the moment, but if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears.
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Inquisitor1138
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phew! Not 'light reading', especially since the RSV-plague makes one stupider (hopefully only temporary).

For my SWU, i see hypermatter as an exotic form of matter, and i'm fine with it being tachyonic in nature. It is not dark matter or antimatter, but maybe has some similarities to both... i can work with that!

What i have a problem with is hypermatter being labeled as ship fuel when it isn't.
Most ships use Ion Engines of some sort for propulsion, and fusion reactors for power. Ion Engines use abundant, readily available fuel in most systems.
Star Destroyers & other gigantic ships us hypermatter annihilation reactors for crazy amounts of power, needed to power the vessel, and ostensibly the hyperdrives of the huge ships. Hypermatter is much rarer, more volatile, & an order of magnitude more valuable.

Travel & 'speed' in hyperspace is not governed by Newtonian physics. It is 100% a function of the hyperdrive. When in hyperspace, a ship cannot change its course or speed; that can only be done in realspace.
This is why the 'hyperspace ramming' doesn't work.
Maybe Holdo had that ship packed with hypermatter, & used a short jump just to get close & not get shot down, with the hypermatter getting set off by collision making a far more potent explosion...
For 'parking' something in hyperspace & not move, i think you'd need to design & build a parking hyperdrive. Or get 3+ rolls of 30+ each to modify an existing standard hyperdrive into a parking hyperdrive... Failure, or attempting to un-modify the 'parking hyperdrive' wrecks it permanently.

My brain is quitting, but i may return to this...
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're making a lot of assumptions here...

Inquisitor1138 wrote:
What i have a problem with is hypermatter being labeled as ship fuel when it isn't.

As things currently stand, hypermatter reactors are the go-to power source for capital ships in the SWU (per the Incredible Cross-Section books). I strive to incorporate newly introduced technology from the prequels (and the sequels, to a lesser extent) wherever I can find a plausible reason to do so. My take is that hypermatter reactors and fusion reactors/drives are the dividing line between Starship / Starfighter-Scale and Capital Ships.

Quote:
Travel & 'speed' in hyperspace is not governed by Newtonian physics. It is 100% a function of the hyperdrive. When in hyperspace, a ship cannot change its course or speed; that can only be done in realspace.

And yet the majority of WEG hyperspace routes are not linear, with no indication that a ship must drop out of hyperspace at the beginning of a curve and replot their course to adjust. There is no reason why a ship in hyperspace can't alter their course and speed so long as said alteration was part of their pregenerated course.

Quote:
This is why the 'hyperspace ramming' doesn't work.

It does, though. Hyperspace, while being coterminous with realspace, is effectively a different dimension, and objects in one dimension are not physically present in the other. The only energy that carries across the dimensional barrier is gravity (which is why gravity well projectors function for hyperspace interdiction), and even then, it's possible for two objects (one in realspace, the other in hyperspace) to pass "through" each other, so long as their inertial dampening and acceleration compensators are robust enough to absorb and/or off-set the effects.

What we saw with hyperspace ramming was not a realspace hypermatter detonation, but the effects of gravity shear at hyperluminal velocities by an object massive enough to overload the target's compensators.

Quote:
For 'parking' something in hyperspace & not move, i think you'd need to design & build a parking hyperdrive.

Yes. Two separate drive systems: one for interstellar travel, the other for transitioning into hyperspace at a specific location (such as for mining hypermatter). Both take up mass and power, thus a ship equipped with both will almost certainly be far slower in hyperspace than a ship equipped with just a hyperdrive. This allows for oil rig and drilling ship analogs, with the attendant performance compromises: a "space oil rig", for example, would be better at extracting hypermatter, but would be far slower when moving between systems (possibly even needing star tugs to assist it). Both would have their uses depending on the situation.
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Inquisitor1138
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Inquisitor1138 wrote:
Travel & 'speed' in hyperspace is not governed by Newtonian physics. It is 100% a function of the hyperdrive. When in hyperspace, a ship cannot change its course or speed; that can only be done in realspace.

And yet the majority of WEG hyperspace routes are not linear, with no indication that a ship must drop out of hyperspace at the beginning of a curve and replot their course to adjust. There is no reason why a ship in hyperspace can't alter their course and speed so long as said alteration was part of their pregenerated course.

No. Most WEG maps include a note on the map itself, stating that the routes as shown are inaccurate generalizations. If you chose to disregard that, that is your choice.
Between WEG & various novels, it has been stated vessels on longer or more complicated routes, do need to exit hyperspace to make course corrections.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inquisitor1138 wrote:
Most WEG maps include a note on the map itself, stating that the routes as shown are inaccurate generalizations. If you chose to disregard that, that is your choice.

I don't disregard it; the maps being inaccurate generalizations doesn't make the courses all straight. Even then, subsequent official publications like the Essential Atlas have continued the precedent. Major hyperspace routes like the Corellian Run and the Hydian Way are almost entirely curved along their entire length.

Quote:
Between WEG & various novels, it has been stated vessels on longer or more complicated routes, do need to exit hyperspace to make course corrections.

Yes, because they are flying blind on inertial guidance while in hyperspace. Even the most accurate inertial positioning system will experience a certain degree of drift over long distances. Thus, dropping out of hyperspace to get a position fix allows the astrogator to adjust for drift and recalculate his course (if needed). This would be true either way.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Inquisitor1138 wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Inquisitor1138 wrote:
Travel & 'speed' in hyperspace is not governed by Newtonian physics. It is 100% a function of the hyperdrive. When in hyperspace, a ship cannot change its course or speed; that can only be done in realspace.

And yet the majority of WEG hyperspace routes are not linear, with no indication that a ship must drop out of hyperspace at the beginning of a curve and replot their course to adjust. There is no reason why a ship in hyperspace can't alter their course and speed so long as said alteration was part of their pregenerated course.

No. Most WEG maps include a note on the map itself, stating that the routes as shown are inaccurate generalizations. If you chose to disregard that, that is your choice.
Between WEG & various novels, it has been stated vessels on longer or more complicated routes, do need to exit hyperspace to make course corrections.

I don't disregard it; the maps being inaccurate generalizations doesn't make the courses all straight. Even then, subsequent official publications like the Essential Atlas have continued the precedent. Major hyperspace routes like the Corellian Run and the Hydian Way are almost entirely curved along their entire length.

Inquisitor, WEG was just the beginning of mapping the galaxy. It has advanced quite a bit since then. Considering post-1998, greatly expanded upon and updated information (that organically incorporated WEG into a greater whole) does not mean we are choosing to "disregard" WEG.

When I first read your statement, I was sure that you meant what CRM replied, but you have clarified and I was wrong. As has already been brought up, there is one thing from physics that effects hyperspace travel: mass in realspace casts a gravity shadow into hyperspace.

According to real world physics for realspace, nothing in space travels in straight line. Spaceships taking off from planets have the inertia of the planet, and planets do not travel in straight lines. Everything in a star system has the inertia of the star system, and stars do not travel through their galaxies in straight lines. Space itself is "curved" by gravity fields. Absolutely nothing moves in a straight. If hyperspace worked differently where there were no gravity shadows, maybe starships could move in straight lines through hyperspace. But since hyperspace experiences the gravity of realspace, nothing moves through the galaxy in a straight line. That means that the curvature of the course a starship takes through hyperspace must be a part of the initial calculation for astrogation, which means that ships do not only travel in straight line through hyperspace.
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pakman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recently came across this thread while looking for other things.

I think of hypermatter as two things;

1 - techo geeky speak just made up for an art book.
2 - Specially processed reactor fuel to make it more powerful as capital ships need more power.

Take what ever element we want in star wars - and they do some kind of processing to make it especially well suited for greater power output.

I mean, kind of like for our crude real world fusion reactors we use deuterium-tritium fuel (basically, a type of hydrogen....but lets not get distracted here).
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