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What Star Wars novels have you read? Liked?
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griff
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked the stuff from the Dark Empire better then the story. Bringing back the Emperor and Boba Fett felt lame. I liked the World Devastators to the point that I included them into the Retired Imperial Captain Template's background. Instead of getting a Star Destroryer when being promoted to captain he was assigned to a World Devastators (world devastators existed before episode 4 to help build the Death Star). Feeling cheated and resentful he retired and joined the Rebellion. Also like th e sea commandos. The ewok on the repeating blaster is brilliant. The introduction of Nal Hutta was great.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

griff wrote:
I liked the stuff from the Dark Empire better then the story. Bringing back the Emperor and Boba Fett felt lame. I liked the World Devastators to the point that I included them into the Retired Imperial Captain Template's background. Instead of getting a Star Destroryer when being promoted to captain he was assigned to a World Devastators (world devastators existed before episode 4 to help build the Death Star). Feeling cheated and resentful he retired and joined the Rebellion. Also like th e sea commandos. The ewok on the repeating blaster is brilliant. The introduction of Nal Hutta was great.


And the world devistators savaging Mon cal, was KEPT into the jedi academy and later novels.
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Solo4114
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the stuff that made it into the Dark Empire Sourcebook is pretty solid. I liked the depiction of a bunch of the tech (although not so much the Ultra-Super-Mega-Giganto-Class Star Destroyers), and the underworld characters and Nal Hutta.

The rest, though...eh. I found the dialogue to feel not like the characters, really. I'd have to have the comic in front of me, but pretty much all of the Force related stuff just felt...off. Plus, either in DEI or DEII, you get the first inklings of some of the really wackadoo Force-related stuff that crept into the novels and video games, when you see Luke use the Force to take down an AT-AT single-handedly. Like, to ricochet the AT-AT's lasers back at it and pull it down with the Force (as opposed to just surviving a fall and tossing a grenade in the right spot).

That later became Dorsk 81 or 82 or whatever pushing a whole fleet out of range and exploding, and Secret Apprentice Starkiller pulling Star Destroyers out of the sky.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solo4114 wrote:
Plus, either in DEI or DEII, you get the first inklings of some of the really wackadoo Force-related stuff that crept into the novels and video games, when you see Luke use the Force to take down an AT-AT single-handedly. Like, to ricochet the AT-AT's lasers back at it and pull it down with the Force (as opposed to just surviving a fall and tossing a grenade in the right spot).
I think it was an AT-ST, which I can believe, not an AT-AT.

Quote:
That later became Dorsk 81 or 82 or whatever pushing a whole fleet out of range and exploding, and Secret Apprentice Starkiller pulling Star Destroyers out of the sky.
That crap is bantha poodoo though.
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I listened to the Dark Empire I audio drama. Some good ideas there—the Holocron, Byss, Nar Shaddaa and Nal Hutta. I actually think the idea of the Emperor clone is very plausible, in fact almost unavoidable. This is the only story where Leia really gets to shine, satisfactorily tying up a dangling thread from the OT (where it’s suggested she is the chosen one). The dialogue didn’t seem bad, to me; about the same as the movies, though it could have used more humor. Of course, the big problem is it’s so over-the-top, probably due to its comic book origins (I haven’t read the comic book and don’t plan to), especially when it comes to the Force. And it just doesn’t mesh well with The Thrawn Trilogy at all. While I think DE1 is more in line with what Lucas wanted and with the epic feel of the movies, I have to go with Zahn for a more beautiful and well-realized universe, believable characters, and a more reasonable depiction of the Force.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
Solo4114 wrote:
Plus, either in DEI or DEII, you get the first inklings of some of the really wackadoo Force-related stuff that crept into the novels and video games, when you see Luke use the Force to take down an AT-AT single-handedly. Like, to ricochet the AT-AT's lasers back at it and pull it down with the Force (as opposed to just surviving a fall and tossing a grenade in the right spot).
I think it was an AT-ST, which I can believe, not an AT-AT.

Nope. It was an AT-AT. He deflected a bolt directly back at it, then proceeded to use TK to crush it.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Bren wrote:
Solo4114 wrote:
Plus, either in DEI or DEII, you get the first inklings of some of the really wackadoo Force-related stuff that crept into the novels and video games, when you see Luke use the Force to take down an AT-AT single-handedly. Like, to ricochet the AT-AT's lasers back at it and pull it down with the Force (as opposed to just surviving a fall and tossing a grenade in the right spot).
I think it was an AT-ST, which I can believe, not an AT-AT.

Nope. It was an AT-AT. He deflected a bolt directly back at it, then proceeded to use TK to crush it.
OK. Then I misremembered. Possibly because a Jedi PC in my old campaign blocked a AT-ST cannon shot (using a Force Point) and then used TK to tip it over (not crush it).

One of the house rules I've used was to compare the lightsaber damage dice total to see what a Jedi could (at maximum) parry. So to parry a light repeating blaster (6D) you'd need to have at least a +1D damage bonus. Using the walker scale modifier (+4D) and the 6D damage for the weapon a Jedi would need at least a +5D damage bonus from their Control to be able to parry a blaster cannon. Of course even with enough damage an AT-AT's cannon probably has a blast area of effect which the lightsaber may not be able to absorb or reflect.
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WillTasker
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't read DE in a very long time but remembered liking it when it came out. The art reminded me a lot of what was coming out of Heavy Metal more than anything close to Star Wars - so sometimes it was great (like Nar Shaada or war-torn Coruscant) and other times it wasn't (other places).

And while it did make some ... liberal interpretations of what the Force can do (the Emperor was pretty over-powered - Force Storms are a cool idea but if you can do that, why even have a starfleet?), it was nothing compared to the silliness Kevin Anderson or a couple of other authors did as the years went on. (I've never forgiven him for that super silly "force detecting machine that throws you across a room").

(I also died laughing when Zahn literally took three sentences in the opening of one of his books - Survivor's Quest, I believe - where Luke's inner monologue is practically "I have reigned in my Force powers to something more manageable" as a giant RESET BUTTON to a lot of the other writers who made Luke into a Superhero character.)

That said: the original DE comics had extra pages in the back that filled out a lot of lore. It wasn't comics, just purple pages of text. Did these ever get reprinted in later collections? I only ever saw them in the first print, never in the TPBs.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trade paperback I have has 28 pages of lore endnotes at the back of the book. It's the first compilation and they were only included in the first two. I don't think I've ever read them, but they do look interesting.

Han Solo said as Tom Veitch wrote:
They're headin' straight for Imperial City - where the Emperor himself used to hang his hat - when he was alive!

After reading HttE in the summer of '91, I was so pumped for DE. Issue #1 came out on my birthday that December, and I bought two copies. I was so sure this was going to be leaps and bounds better than the cheesy Marvel series. After HttE I was craving more high quality Star Wars stories.

There were a few interesting tidbits here and there, but overall I was utterly disappointed in DE. The artwork was mostly very bad, especially for the characters. Bringing the slapstick Boba Fett back to life as a serious villain was lame. I also didn't care for how they brought back the Emperor. The comic was just plain silly.

Even then it was clear to me that DE and Zahn's novel were developed independently of each other. It was obvious DE's story was originally meant to take place soon after RotJ but was displaced from its original setting to taking place after the Thrawn Trilogy as an afterthought. I later found out that before HttE came out Zahn was asked to incorporate references to DE in his novels and he refused - Apparently it was not required by his contract so he could refuse. So DE was forced to reference Zahn but that didn't make sense either. These were two conflicting visions for the post-RotJ SW galaxy. The Empire quickly retaking Coruscant after Thrawn couldn't do it, Han referring to Imperial City as the Emperor's former home when Han himself lived there much more recently, different Solo children, Luke cheesily joining the Dark Side to defeat it from within, etc.

But thinking of collector value, I did finish collecting the original series in '92. Then years later I wanted to downsize my comic collection and got rid of DE except the extra #1. Then years later I got rid of that. Then when Marvel got the comic license back I regretted getting rid of DE for some odd reason and bought the trade. Maybe just because it's the first Dark Horse Star Wars and they did later go on to make some better SW comics? Maybe to salvage what little good there is for my own use? I don't know. At the same time I also bought trades for the original Marvel movie adaptations even though the artwork is pretty bad.

And guys, I had created a separate thread for discussing SW comics, which you may be interested in: Let's do Star Wars comic books! FYI
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:

One of the house rules I've used was to compare the lightsaber damage dice total to see what a Jedi could (at maximum) parry. So to parry a light repeating blaster (6D) you'd need to have at least a +1D damage bonus. Using the walker scale modifier (+4D) and the 6D damage for the weapon a Jedi would need at least a +5D damage bonus from their Control to be able to parry a blaster cannon. Of course even with enough damage an AT-AT's cannon probably has a blast area of effect which the lightsaber may not be able to absorb or reflect.


We had a thread a while back about scale and deflection..
http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3781&highlight=light+saber+scale

Quote:
And while it did make some ... liberal interpretations of what the Force can do (the Emperor was pretty over-powered - Force Storms are a cool idea but if you can do that, why even have a starfleet?), it was nothing compared to the silliness Kevin Anderson or a couple of other authors did as the years went on. (I've never forgiven him for that super silly "force detecting machine that throws you across a room").
Quote:


You are mis remembering it. THE force paddles on that machine did NOTHING to those using it (or those scanned), the tossing someone back was in the FORCE power "sense force potential"..


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Bren
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
We had a thread a while back about scale and deflection..
http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3781&highlight=light+saber+scale
Hey thanks for the link. I'd forgotten that thread. At least I remembered half of what I said back then. Wink After rereading I'm still satisfied with my thoughts in that thread.

I don't think the other two quotes are from me or from that thread though.
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S-Foil
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This question gets me all nostalgic because I read the EU novels and comics as they were being released and had just really gotten in to the RPG. My opinion of some of the novels has changed over time and/or after re-reading them.

My favorite series were the Thawn Trilogy and X-Wing Quadrilogy. Second to those are the Thrawn Duology and Wraith Trilogy. The Tales series had some good stories that I mined heavily for game ideas including some of my longest played characters. I liked Courtship of Princess Leia, I loved the Dathomiri witches and the Hapans.

The Black Fleet Crisis I didn't enjoy much when I originally read it but ended up liking it more as time went by. The Jedi Academy and Corellian trilogies went the opposite direction, I originally liked them but then grew to really dislike them over time. I did however really like the Young Jedi Knight novels, they're not fine literature but they're fun stories that feel pretty Star Wars to me.

The stand alone novels I hated to a one. This has not changed over time, Crystal Star was and will be terrible.

I loved the Tales of the Jedi and Crimson Empire comics but always disliked the Dark Empire series. Every aspect of Dark Empire I found lame.

I never got into any of the New Jedi Order series. The Bantam books had given me a bit of super weapon fatigue and I didn't like the "invaders from out there show up and just whoop everyone's @$$ for reasons". Then I was never the biggest fan of the Clan invasion in BattleTech either. I guess I just don't like that trope.

I read the entire runs of the Empire, Rebellion, and Clone Wars comics and liked them. I also enjoyed the Knights of the Old Republic stuff (including the games). I also liked Outbound Flight, Death Star, and Alligiance. I never ended up reading most of the other prequel novels despite starting more than one.
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finished Starfighters of Adumar yesterday, thus completing my programme of Daley+Zahn+Stackpole+Allston Star Wars fiction (not venturing past 1999). Quite a satisfactory journey!
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just finished James Luceno's Tarkin.

There are some good points: The audio production is fantastic. It's really top notch, with the music and sound effects. Not too much. Not too little. Just right.

The narrator, too, does his job well. I've heard better ones, but I've heard many more who are not near as good. He does other voices besides the main character to make the characters sound different. And, his Tarkin imitation is amazing.

Luceno does an excellent job bringing an interesting background to Tarkin. What Luceno comes up with really makes sense. You can see how Tarkin became the man we all know from A New Hope.

We see Tarkin become a Grand Moff--the first one--and we learn that the position was created for Tarkin.

It's interesting seeing Tarkin and Vader working together--seeing their relationship develop. The Tarkin doctrine is touched upon, and the last page or so, revealing the Death Star leaving the Geonosis system for the first time, is pretty cool.




But, what I've just described--the good parts of the book--are, maybe, 20% of the total work.

Unfortunately, the remaining 80% of the book is this extremely boring mystery that comes to the Emperor's attention, and, in turn, the Emperor takes Tarkin away from the Death Star project (and Vader away from his duties) to follow this uninteresting mystery.

There's really no reason for Tarkin and Vader to be on the trail of this mystery other than the Emperor directed them to follow it. It's really something that I can't fathom the Emperor using these these two top Imperials for such a lowly job. It's beneath them! Some Lieutenant with a stormtrooper squad or maybe an ISB agent should have been assigned.

I just didn't buy it.

But, I would have forgiven that if the story had been even remotely interesting. It wasn't. Not at all.

And, because this is the bulk of the book, I cannot recommend this book to anyone else.

Thumbs down.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm about half way through the ANH radio drama, and, it surprises me how good it is.

I'm really enjoying it.
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