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Template: Heavy Weapons Specialist
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only objection to making the weapon Speeder scale is that it takes away a major advantage found in rotary weapons with extremely high rates of fire. Specifically, a gunner can sweep his weapon across an arc of fire and hit multiple targets with a single burst (I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that your basis for this weapon is "Old Painless", Jesse Ventura's mini-gun from Predator). I could see Speeder-Scale if the weapon were a shoulder-fired blast type weapon (energy equivalent of a bazooka or RPG or something), but when putting out a constant stream of smaller blasts, the rules should reflect it.

The idea of rapid-fire rules have come up before, and the approach generally agreed to be the best is to give a rapid fire weapon an Auto-Fire rating (1D-3D/4D) which can then be apportioned as a bonus to Damage, Fire Control or anti-MAP penalties.

In the case of this weapon, I would suggest:

1). Change the scale to Character, and change the damage to 5D or 6D

2). Give it an Auto-Fire rating of 3D (I usually reserve 4D for constant-stream-of-fire weapons like beam weapons and flamethrowers). You can put the Auto-Fire rating in the Fire Rate stat.

This allows the gunner to choose his effect. He can:

1). Lay down a stream of fire at a single target,

2). Shoot off a tight cone to increase his chances of hitting a more mobile target (at the cost of reduced damage),

3). Spray an arc of fire to hit multiple targets with a single burst, or...

4). He can combine the above effects to fit the combat situation.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:

I am not understanding the STR requirement. This is already effectively handled by the +/-2D scale difference. Someone had suggested to add a STR requirement and that it would not effect the template. Why add an additional modifier that doesn't do anything?


Take a look at the medium repeater. Though it mentions no actual str limit needed, it does mention it is ;unwieldly' to be used in the hands of a person due to bulk and size.. To me that should indicate it has a min str to be able to use it that way that is high (say 3d+2 or more).. Your rotary blaster with backpack powersource, should equally have some requirement.
Also most big guns of that nature should have some massive 'kick' from recoil, which str should be used to offset. Again that is why i feel it needs a min str.
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am not understanding the STR requirement. This is already effectively handled by the +/-2D scale difference. Someone had suggested to add a STR requirement and that it would not effect the template. Why add an additional modifier that doesn't do anything?


Hey, I'm someone!

Just because the STR requirement doesn't affect your HWGuy doesn't mean the rotary blaster could be picked up and easily wielded by the average Ewok. Or the average human for that matter.
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I am curious, what are the penalties for not meeting a STR requirement?

I am not familiar with Auto-Fire rules.

No I was not thinking a Vulcan cannon, I was thinking more of a .50 caliber type weapon.

As for a small size species using this item, I don't think a mechanic is required, just common sense. Again the scale modifiers and additional movement modifiers mimic the weapon systems awkwardness.

Ok I was thinking a quick and easy template for a Heavy Weapons guy. Now we are talking about minimum STR, auto-fire rules, etc. Though these things are GREAT ideas, I am wondering if this is quickly developing into something that is just too complicated to play in a Star Wars themed game.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
I am not familiar with Auto-Fire rules.


They are an optional rule invented here on the forum.


Quote:
No I was not thinking a Vulcan cannon, I was thinking more of a .50 caliber type weapon.


Yet .50 cal equivalents already exist in the SWU (specifically, the E-Web), and .50 cal's aren't rotary barrel weapons.


Quote:
Ok I was thinking a quick and easy template for a Heavy Weapons guy. Now we are talking about minimum STR, auto-fire rules, etc. Though these things are GREAT ideas, I am wondering if this is quickly developing into something that is just too complicated to play in a Star Wars themed game.


The main difference between standard stats and what you have is that you got into specifics about the weapon. Most templates only describe the weapon in the most basic terms (damage, range, and maybe ammo), while you went into specific detail about the weapon. That opened the door to the critique of the weapon almost as a stand-alone stat.
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Ral_Brelt
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A .50 cal rapid fire gun that's man portable? That's a hell of a lot of repeated kick. That round is about 20% larger than what's typically used in the Gau-8 Avenger(the A-10 auto cannon). The Gau-8 has enough recoil that it physically slows the plane and firing it made the plane yaw so they had yo adjust how it was mounted. Now if you used a single shot cannon, sure I could see it. But full on spin up spitting firewould either go unwieldy quick or shake one to death rather quickly.

I think the stat requirement is fine...and I play a warrior Jawa that wouldn't blink at hefting such a beast if there were no requirements.
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ral_Brelt wrote:
A .50 cal rapid fire gun that's man portable? That's a hell of a lot of repeated kick. That round is about 20% larger than what's typically used in the Gau-8 Avenger(the A-10 auto cannon). The Gau-8 has enough recoil that it physically slows the plane and firing it made the plane yaw so they had yo adjust how it was mounted. Now if you used a single shot cannon, sure I could see it. But full on spin up spitting firewould either go unwieldy quick or shake one to death rather quickly.

I think the stat requirement is fine...and I play a warrior Jawa that wouldn't blink at hefting such a beast if there were no requirements.


Actually, the Gau-8 is 30mm, which is over an inch while .50 cal is half an inch.

.50 cal is just too big for a man portable machine gun. And while no workable version of a man portable rotary machine gun is available in real life, there is good ole Blaine in Predator to look too.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
So I am curious, what are the penalties for not meeting a STR requirement?


That depends.. There are few if any actual weapons that DO give a full on str requirement, most just fluff' mention it, with no actual rules. 2 of the weapons i have wrote out which DO have str requirement, failing to meat it causes you damage if you fire the weapon (due to the massive kick back) each pip less you have. Some game systems handle it where for having a lower str, you take a penalty to hit to show you have less of a chance to compensate for the recoil..

shootingwomprats wrote:

No I was not thinking a Vulcan cannon, I was thinking more of a .50 caliber type weapon.

As for a small size species using this item, I don't think a mechanic is required, just common sense. Again the scale modifiers and additional movement modifiers mimic the weapon systems awkwardness.


But without something concrete to show people, they can say "common sense is you grinding on my imagination".. And as to a .50 cal.. know anyone who can carry one on his own and fire it??
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Audi Murphy. But he fired it from the hip (and only a short distance). Not something you can do for long.

The M-60 is a .30 cal machine gun that is barely man portable (and only by big guys). In my mind it's a medium repeater that is cut down to make it somewhat manageable.
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Darth_Hilarious
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Audi Murphy fired a Browning M-1917 Water cooled .30
the Browning M 1919 was the lighter air cooled version that still weighed 31 pounds empty.

The M60 weighs in at a modest 21.5 pounds empty
and Ma Deuce aka the big 50 is a hefty 83.78 pounds


all weights are listed minus tripod and ammunition Shocked
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I am was thinking of more like a .30 man-portable version I guess.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which to me already exists in the form of the light repeater.. This repeater would be more akin to a .40 cal..
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Darth_Hilarious
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as grenade launchers go this one is my personal fave........

The Mk 19 is a belt fed, blowback operated, air cooled, crew served, fully automatic weapon that is designed not to cook off. It fires 40mm grenades at a cyclic rate of 325 to 375 rounds per minute, giving a practical rate of fire of 60 rounds per minute (rapid) and 40 rounds per minute (sustained). The weapon operates on the blowback principle, which uses the chamber pressure from each fired round to load and re-cock the weapon. The Mk 19 can launch its grenade at a maximum distance of 2,212 meters, though its effective range to a point target is about 1,500 meters, since the large rear leaf sight is only graduated to 1,500 meters. The nearest safe distance to launch the grenade is 310 meters in training and 75 meters in combat. Though the Mk 19 has a flash suppressor, it serves only to save the eyesight of its operator; it does not conceal the weapon's position. For night, operation, an AN/TVS-5 night vision sight can be fitted.

The Mk 19A man-portable crew-served weapon that can fire from a tripod mounted position or from a vehicle mount, with the latter being the preferred method as the weapon alone weighs 32.9 kilograms (72.5 lb). The primary ammunition for is the high-explosive dual-purpose M430 grenade. On impact, the grenade can kill anyone within the radius of five meters, and wound them within the radius of 15 meters. It can also punch through 5.1 centimetres (2 in) of rolled homogeneous armor with a direct hit (0 Degree Obliquity), which means it can penetrate most infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers. It is especially effective when used against enemy infantry formations. The ammunition comes in cans that hold a 32 or 48 grenades belt weighing 19 and 27 kilograms (42 and 60 lb), respectively.



I just love weapons that can hit out to 1.5 Km on an aimed shot Very Happy



Man portable? Not really but it has the same basic weight and crew requirements as an E-web repeating blaster.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't the underslung grenade launcher the 240 have the same range?
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Darth_Hilarious
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mk 19 uses a high velocity round and the M203/M240 uses a low velocity round.

The LV round only maxes out to around 800 meters.
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