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ZzaphodD
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 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Or a bad GM playing Vader...
Danger Sense. 1 action
Enhance Attribute (STR) +3D (=9D to resist damage). 1 action
TK the bombs (a bag of bombs = 1 TK). 1 action.
Telekinetik Kill on the attacker... 1 action.
Even with CPs you should have some problem resisting around 19D of alter. Even at Perception 4D youll end up at 9D at most IIRC.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Not very cinematic though. Of course, the only canon dream sequence was Jedi vs. Sith, not Sith vs. some guy with a sack of grenades...
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Fallon Kell"
I didn't use a FP, Just CPs. Vader used an FP, which he benefited from, just not enough. I used a bag of bombs, to which Vader did react, as I had hoped (they were a diversion, and caused enough MAPs to leave Vader vulnerable to my vibrosword attack.)[/quote]
That's the part that surprises me. By spending a FP most of Vaders skill scores would be high enough to let him pull off some fancy stuff. And with his skill score, he should have been able to throw up a formidble parry. Scores over 100 were not impossible.
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I freely admit that I got lucky on my rolls, but I chose CPs over a FP because I knew they could get luckier. My luck was easily counterbalanced by the fact that Vader had Vader's stats, while I was down in the 7-9D range. |
No argument there. You musthave gotten very lucky to pull that off. But I still had doubts about how the GM ran it. Id have expected Vader to so something like TK the bag of bombs, or even slice out the primers from the explosives. With 40D+ in lightsaber he can do a lot.
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It wasn't a matter of outfoxing, so much as playing my character's strengths against Vader's weaknesses. |
I don't know. There are a lot of things that I would have expected the GM to do. Did he give Vader a situational advatage for lightsaber vs. Virborblade? Did he have Danger Sense upo? With Danger Sense and TK you should have been force fed your own bombs.
But, I wasn't there, and didn't see the fight, and luck counts. , |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Not very cinematic though. Of course, the only canon dream sequence was Jedi vs. Sith, not Sith vs. some guy with a sack of grenades... |
Yeah, and if it was a dream, why didn't Vader just ingoe the greades, or show up in his X1/Advaced? It kinda like Luke walking up and tuning off Vader's respirator and tossing away the power cell while Vader gasps his last breaths. Good for a laugh, but it it puts an end to Vader's rep as a badass. |
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Fallon Kell
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Or a bad GM playing Vader...
Danger Sense. 1 action
Enhance Attribute (STR) +3D (=9D to resist damage). 1 action
TK the bombs (a bag of bombs = 1 TK). 1 action.
Telekinetik Kill on the attacker... 1 action.
Even with CPs you should have some problem resisting around 19D of alter. Even at Perception 4D youll end up at 9D at most IIRC. |
The bombs weren't in the bag. I just slung an armload of them carelessly in his general direction. That's like -11D for TK a dozen times, and another -12D for absorb/dissipate when they go off. I don't know about TK kill when he already has his lightsaber out and hot and I'm charging to within arm's reach.
I don't know the specifics of the Saber v.s. Sword matchup beyond the fact that if I didn't roll high enough, my sword would have been completely destroyed.
On the subject of cinematics, besides the simple fact that it was a dream sequence and none of it was "real", what isn't cinematic enough about a burning man flying through a cloud of explosions popping all over the place like flak over Hanoi swinging a sword against the Dark Lord of the Sith and his lightsaber?
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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It seems like your character got the ability to throw multiple bombs with a single action therefore limiting the MAPs. That is fine as you don't really care where they land and if you're just throwing a handful there will be some scatter meaning that it would be multiple actions on Vader's part to fling them away if he's acting after the throw.
However with Danger Sense you'd declare your action:
I throw an armload of live bombs at Vader as I charge him the round before you do it so Vader has a whole round to get ready and prepare an appropriate response like:
I use telekenesis to hold Falcon's arm in place so he cannot complete his throw and the armload of live bombs do not get thrown."
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, the -11D MAPs on a 7D - 9D throw is going to result in a number of grenades landing on your character. Ditto when you charge through 12 blast areas.
Vader using Absorb/Dissipate is foolish against 12 attacks. It only made sense on Bespin because Han fired once and then Vader yanked away his blaster. Far better to increase STR either via CPs or a FP and some force power or just use Danger sense to move or dodge out of the way.
By the way, how did your character pull the pins on 12 grenades? |
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, they weren't aimed or anything, I used the bag as a sling and chose a general direction, and charged through as they blew up. There wasn't really any time before combat I just got dropped into the mix with my choice of gear from my shipboard stash. | Bren wrote: |
By the way, how did your character pull the pins on 12 grenades? |
They weren't grenades. They were bombs. Remote detonated charges that all went off with a single trip. And yeah, they blew me up pretty good too. That's what the 5 CPs on my soak were for, at least as much as Vader's blade.
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Yeah, they weren't aimed or anything, I used the bag as a sling and chose a general direction, and charged through as they blew up. There wasn't really any time before combat I just got dropped into the mix with my choice of gear from my shipboard stash. |
Even so with danger sense it would have been possible for Vader to use TK to tie the bag around your character's arm before it was thrown rather than having to react to the individual bombs/explosions.
Additionally unless the bombs all stacked toegther to form one very damaging blastwave which by RAW they don't without some form of command/combined action or a demolitions roll then Vader's force point should have doubled his non amour based soak for every single bomb that went off in that round (multiple small/medium soak rolls) but your character would have to spend character points for every single soak roll that his strength+amour wasn't enough for.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | Yeah, they weren't aimed or anything, I used the bag as a sling and chose a general direction, and charged through as they blew up. There wasn't really any time before combat I just got dropped into the mix with my choice of gear from my shipboard stash. |
Even so with danger sense it would have been possible for Vader to use TK to tie the bag around your character's arm before it was thrown rather than having to react to the individual bombs/explosions.
Additionally unless the bombs all stacked toegther to form one very damaging blastwave which by RAW they don't without some form of command/combined action or a demolitions roll then Vader's force point should have doubled his non amour based soak for every single bomb that went off in that round (multiple small/medium soak rolls) but your character would have to spend character points for every single soak roll that his strength+amour wasn't enough for. |
Even if he wrapped them all up together we'd have both blown up with me hugging him. As it was he survived the bombs...
And we were playing by 2E, in which I'm pretty sure one soak roll stands for all damage in a round.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | Yeah, they weren't aimed or anything, I used the bag as a sling and chose a general direction, and charged through as they blew up. There wasn't really any time before combat I just got dropped into the mix with my choice of gear from my shipboard stash. | Bren wrote: |
By the way, how did your character pull the pins on 12 grenades? |
They weren't grenades. They were bombs. Remote detonated charges that all went off with a single trip. And yeah, they blew me up pretty good too. That's what the 5 CPs on my soak were for, at least as much as Vader's blade. |
Was there some object lesson learned from this, as happened with Luke in the cave in ESB? I hope so, because otherwise, this just ends up sounding like a combat junkie's wet dream. Not that it isn't a cool idea, but unless there was some neat moral lesson learned in all this, I really don't see the point of having the fight in-game in the first place...
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | Yeah, they weren't aimed or anything, I used the bag as a sling and chose a general direction, and charged through as they blew up. There wasn't really any time before combat I just got dropped into the mix with my choice of gear from my shipboard stash. | Bren wrote: |
By the way, how did your character pull the pins on 12 grenades? |
They weren't grenades. They were bombs. Remote detonated charges that all went off with a single trip. And yeah, they blew me up pretty good too. That's what the 5 CPs on my soak were for, at least as much as Vader's blade. |
Was there some object lesson learned from this, as happened with Luke in the cave in ESB? I hope so, because otherwise, this just ends up sounding like a combat junkie's wet dream. Not that it isn't a cool idea, but unless there was some neat moral lesson learned in all this, I really don't see the point of having the fight in-game in the first place... |
If I didn't win, my player died in a coma.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | If I didn't win, my player died in a coma. |
Weird...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | And we were playing by 2E, in which I'm pretty sure one soak roll stands for all damage in a round. |
Nope. Should be separate rolls for each attack that hits. Roll 12 soak rolls vs. bombs. Ouch! Hope you had a lot of CPs. 
Vader on the other hand, can use a FP with the Enhance attribute power and roll STR 3Dx2+3D vs each explosion then hit you with his lightsaber. He has (as of Yavin) lightsaber of 11D+2 + 12D for sense and does 5D +11D for control for damage. Using a FP that bumps up to 47D+1 to attack and parry and 27D damage. Subtracting -7D MAPs (Danger sense, Enhance attribute, Lightsaber combat (2), 3xattacks, and a parry). So 47D+1-7D=40D+1 to hit and parry and three pretty much guaranteed hits of 27D-7D=20D damage each.
Good thing it wasn't really Vader. 
I was feeling like my young Jedi, Bren, was getting too tough. Now I am really glad we have never seen Vader. And I'm glad I only have to face Dark Siders in the next tier or two down from old Darth. |
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | And we were playing by 2E, in which I'm pretty sure one soak roll stands for all damage in a round. |
Nope. Should be separate rolls for each attack that hits. Roll 12 soak rolls vs. bombs. Ouch! Hope you had a lot of CPs. |
Wow. We always played that one soak covered you for a whole turn unless you had to roll one under different-enough circumstances to change the number of dice (wounded, shot hit a crack in the armor, etc.) Regardless, I did have the cps to cover it, but I'm glad I didn't have to use them.
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