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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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 Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Massive use of explosives and CP on soak rolls, mostly. That combined with the sheer striking power of a 4D strength character with a vibrosword and a suit of corellian power armor behind it. I burned CPs on soak, damage rolls, either demolitions or grenade rolls, melee, and maybe some things I forgot. My skills were in the 7-9D range. |
OK. I guess Vader neglected the Force. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Back when the PS2 first came out, there was a game I very much enjoyed called Dynasty Warriors 2, based on Ancient China's Romance of the Three Kingdoms. The various levels were historical battles, and the player characters were heroic-grade, hacking and slashing their way through packs of cannon-fodder enemies en route to more important goals and tougher opponents. Bottom line, the actions taken by your character in-universe had a pivotal role in how that battle turned out.
The reason I bring it up is that, in the course of the game, you could end up facing certain high-ranking characters "too early". You could still fight them, but if you beat them down to the point of death, the game would jump to a cut-scene where the freshly defeated opponent jumps up, says something along the lines of "It's not my fate to die here," and runs off. Your character still picks up the XP he would've won for killing his opponent, but the opponent himself lives to fight another day.
IMO, something similar should be done with regards to major encounters between PCs and major canon characters. You can have encounters; you can even have your characters fight (and possibly win) against the likes of Darth Vader or Boba Fett. But you should take care that important characters survive to move on to fulfill the events of the film. Unless you don't care a hoot about the canon and what to replace Luke Skywalker et al with your favorite group of PCs...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | Massive use of explosives and CP on soak rolls, mostly. That combined with the sheer striking power of a 4D strength character with a vibrosword and a suit of corellian power armor behind it. I burned CPs on soak, damage rolls, either demolitions or grenade rolls, melee, and maybe some things I forgot. My skills were in the 7-9D range. |
OK. I guess Vader neglected the Force. |
No, it's just Jedi are easy to overwhelm with MAPs as we all know, and I had a good idea of how dangerous he was, but he didn't have a clue how insane I was. Lots of bombs is about the easiest way to kill a jedi, and I used them as a diversion, then hit him hard with the vibrosword. His soak isn't all that special when he's already used a FP, at least compared to my 9D before two CPs for damage.
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Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Are you playing with a modified FP rule? 2R&E Rules state that the FP effect applies to all dice rolls in the round the FP was spent, so it would've had the same effect on his soak roll...
And after all, this is Vader we're talking about. Sounds like your GM left a few tricks unplayed. If nothing else, Vader could've spent another FP to use the Reduce Injury power, lost a mechanical arm to your vibro-sword, then hit you hard in return the next round...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | Are you playing with a modified FP rule? 2R&E Rules state that the FP effect applies to all dice rolls in the round the FP was spent, so it would've had the same effect on his soak roll...
And after all, this is Vader we're talking about. Sounds like your GM left a few tricks unplayed. If nothing else, Vader could've spent another FP to use the Reduce Injury power, lost a mechanical arm to your vibro-sword, then hit you hard in return the next round... |
We were playing by 2E rules, and the FP did double his strength. That wasn't enough.
I think he failed his reduce injury roll. Too many absorb-dissipates (I did basically throw a bag of bombs at him). Also, I remember being very specific to bring that sword straight down on the crown of his head (called shot). I suspect the reduced injury would have ended up as a coma or something. I also think my GM had a rule against "quadding up".
The real issue here is not about me killing Vader, though. It's proof of concept that a CQC with a jedi is not just a FP quick-draw match. I played my strengths (a good soak, a large pile of CPs, and a very high damage attack,) against his weaknesses (that multiple actions are required to cover his weaker soak, and that he couldn't use CPs since he was using a FP), and came out on top with some luck in the rolls.
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Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds similar to this guy.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Azai
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Posts: 248
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Dynasty Warrior is such a guilty pleasure ;P.
A character of mine did something similiar to a 'big bad sith' that was around vaders level.(Or higher?) Sometimes friends would get together and we'd play opposing campaigns....
Anyways my character was a gunslinger who had it out for this Sith. There was no-one he was gonna beat the character(The guy sometimes "showed" off his stats). So he made a plan. He lured the Sith into his freighter, got them into space and then... Bomb. Blew them both up  . Figured he'd sacrifice himself for his 'friends' and to finally get revenge.
Though despite liking to have most heroes "be on grid"... I have been guilty of bending the rules so they survive. I mean what is a galaxy without boba fett, or han solo? Or even Vader? |
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Fallon Kell
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Sounds similar to this guy. |
Kinda. My fight was over faster, and I wasn't counting on not exploding so much... | Azai wrote: | Dynasty Warrior is such a guilty pleasure ;P.
A character of mine did something similiar to a 'big bad sith' that was around vaders level.(Or higher?) Sometimes friends would get together and we'd play opposing campaigns....
Anyways my character was a gunslinger who had it out for this Sith. There was no-one he was gonna beat the character(The guy sometimes "showed" off his stats). So he made a plan. He lured the Sith into his freighter, got them into space and then... Bomb. Blew them both up . Figured he'd sacrifice himself for his 'friends' and to finally get revenge.
Though despite liking to have most heroes "be on grid"... I have been guilty of bending the rules so they survive. I mean what is a galaxy without boba fett, or han solo? Or even Vader? |
If it hadn't been a dream sequence, I think my GM would have bent the rules too. That's actually one thing I resolved to do differently from him, way back at the start. (If you want to kill Vader, you can try. God help you. If He does, and you win, God help me...)
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | Massive use of explosives and CP on soak rolls, mostly. That combined with the sheer striking power of a 4D strength character with a vibrosword and a suit of corellian power armor behind it. I burned CPs on soak, damage rolls, either demolitions or grenade rolls, melee, and maybe some things I forgot. My skills were in the 7-9D range. |
OK. I guess Vader neglected the Force. |
Or at least danger sense...
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | We were playing by 2E rules, and the FP did double his strength. That wasn't enough. |
Yeah. It's a bit of an oddity that using a FP gives Vader STR 6D while spending CPs means he can spend up to 5 CPs which gives him 8D soak with six of the eight dice being wild. So you can soak a lot more damage with CPs than with FPs.
Thanks for providing the extra details Fallon. |
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | We were playing by 2E rules, and the FP did double his strength. That wasn't enough. |
Yeah. It's a bit of an oddity that using a FP gives Vader STR 6D while spending CPs means he can spend up to 5 CPs which gives him 8D soak with six of the eight dice being wild. So you can soak a lot more damage with CPs than with FPs.
Thanks for providing the extra details Fallon. |
Sure thing. It is worth thinking about, though, that any battle between two powerful opponents comes down to who burns what points how and when... I can't say as I really have a solution to that problem yet.
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | OK. I guess Vader neglected the Force. |
Or at least danger sense... |
I may have overloaded danger sense. Danger=Yes. Very yes. Everywhere. Especially in his head.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | I may have overloaded danger sense. Danger=Yes. Very yes. Everywhere. Especially in his head. |
Or reduced its effectiveness..
| Force Powers wrote: | Effect: Danger sense allows a Jedi to extend
his senses around himself like protective sensors
creating an early warning system for as long as
the power remains in effect.
When this power is used, the Jedi detects
any attacks the round before they are made.
This gives the Jedi a round to decide how to
react to the danger.
In game terms, if a character plans to attack
the Jedi on the next round, she must declare her
action the round before. |
Detecting a bomb (or several) a round before they go off would give you quite an advantage. TK the heck out of there would be an option. Increase Attribute (STR+3D) with a FP would be another (if bombs can be seen the TK the bombs is another option), etc.
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Of course a 'dream Vader' may only have force powers that work as well as the dreamer thinks they do so if the character was unaware of Vader's abilities ignorance may have been not just bliss but also victory.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: |
The real issue here is not about me killing Vader, though. It's proof of concept that a CQC with a jedi is not just a FP quick-draw match. I played my strengths (a good soak, a large pile of CPs, and a very high damage attack,) against his weaknesses (that multiple actions are required to cover his weaker soak, and that he couldn't use CPs since he was using a FP), and came out on top with some luck in the rolls. |
I don't agree. The real issue here IS you killing Vader, because the way you did it is questionable. For instance, you spent Fps, but Vader didn't, or at least didn't seem to benefit from it very much. You seem to have been able to spend a FP and CPs in the same round, which is a no-no. You used a bag of bumbs, but Vader failed to protect against it (Danager Sense and TK spring to my mind), etc. etc.
So I don't thing your encounter rpoves that the FP attrtion theory is invalid. Only that it didn't apply in your example, for reasons that may or may not apply in other encounters.
IMO, I think your example just proves that you were able to outfox your GM, who seems to have been entirely reactive. |
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: |
The real issue here is not about me killing Vader, though. It's proof of concept that a CQC with a jedi is not just a FP quick-draw match. I played my strengths (a good soak, a large pile of CPs, and a very high damage attack,) against his weaknesses (that multiple actions are required to cover his weaker soak, and that he couldn't use CPs since he was using a FP), and came out on top with some luck in the rolls. |
I don't agree. The real issue here IS you killing Vader, because the way you did it is questionable. For instance, you spent Fps, but Vader didn't, or at least didn't seem to benefit from it very much. You seem to have been able to spend a FP and CPs in the same round, which is a no-no. You used a bag of bumbs, but Vader failed to protect against it (Danager Sense and TK spring to my mind), etc. etc.
So I don't thing your encounter rpoves that the FP attrtion theory is invalid. Only that it didn't apply in your example, for reasons that may or may not apply in other encounters.
IMO, I think your example just proves that you were able to outfox your GM, who seems to have been entirely reactive. |
I didn't use a FP, Just CPs. Vader used an FP, which he benefited from, just not enough. I used a bag of bombs, to which Vader did react, as I had hoped (they were a diversion, and caused enough MAPs to leave Vader vulnerable to my vibrosword attack.)
I freely admit that I got lucky on my rolls, but I chose CPs over a FP because I knew they could get luckier. My luck was easily counterbalanced by the fact that Vader had Vader's stats, while I was down in the 7-9D range.
It wasn't a matter of outfoxing, so much as playing my character's strengths against Vader's weaknesses.
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Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
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