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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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 Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:52 am Post subject: |
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I tend to try to keep number of skills low, a bit like 1st ed.
This means:
Hide/Sneak, one skill.
Melee & Brawling (both parry/attack)
Starship piloting (both fighters/transports)
Comp. prog/repair
Con (covers Persuation)
Jet/Rocketpack Operation, one skill.
Other Changes:
Intimidation (now a Per skill)
Scholar does not include Jedi Lore which is a separate skill.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16180
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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I can't help but feel like the title Jedi Lore seems off somehow. I understand you allow Jedi Lore rolls to counter your Lure of the Dark Side house rule, but the idea of a person using just their Lore knowledge to counter the call of evil / darkness is incomplete. If knowledge of a specific body of lore were all that it took to counter evil, then there would be no Catholic priest abuse scandals, as their intimate knowledge of the rules and laws of their beliefs would keep them from ever straying. Since this is not the case, there needs to be something else there. Am I missing something?
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I can't help but feel like the title Jedi Lore seems off somehow. I understand you allow Jedi Lore rolls to counter your Lure of the Dark Side house rule, but the idea of a person using just their Lore knowledge to counter the call of evil / darkness is incomplete. If knowledge of a specific body of lore were all that it took to counter evil, then there would be no Catholic priest abuse scandals, as their intimate knowledge of the rules and laws of their beliefs would keep them from ever straying. Since this is not the case, there needs to be something else there. Am I missing something? |
Actually Im much harsher than the RAW when it comes DSP:s. By the RAW you always get a warning. In my games you NEVER get a warning. If a player asks if an action will result in an DSP I ask him to roll a JL test (or sometimes I secretly roll). The result will determine the nature of the warning.
Theres no mechanical advantage to having a high Jedi Lore skill when it comes to DSP:s.
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Azai
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Posts: 248
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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I play around a lot with combining Space Transports and Starfighter piloting....
What effects have you seen in your game ZzaphodD, since you did this? |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Azai wrote: | I play around a lot with combining Space Transports and Starfighter piloting....
What effects have you seen in your game ZzaphodD, since you did this? |
None really. We play for fun, and having the teams hotshot fighter pilot not being able to outrun a flying bathtub in the teams space transport didnt seem like fun.
Just less skills to keep track of. No downside really. Sure its not 'realistic', but then again what is 
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Sure its not 'realistic', but then again what is |
I like to answer that specific word with a question: "What is the realistic way to fly spaceships across the galaxy in less than a year?" 
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | Sure its not 'realistic', but then again what is |
I like to answer that specific word with a question: "What is the realistic way to fly spaceships across the galaxy in less than a year?" |
Not to say 1 day (or what time the discussion was about)
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14036
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| Azai wrote: | I play around a lot with combining Space Transports and Starfighter piloting....
What effects have you seen in your game ZzaphodD, since you did this? |
I liken combining those 2 to taking a fighter pilot and sticking him in a jumbo. Sure the pilot can operate it, but is he gonna be as able to pull off maneuvers?
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3191
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| Hence, the maneuverability mechanic.... |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Azai wrote: | I play around a lot with combining Space Transports and Starfighter piloting....
What effects have you seen in your game ZzaphodD, since you did this? |
I liken combining those 2 to taking a fighter pilot and sticking him in a jumbo. Sure the pilot can operate it, but is he gonna be as able to pull off maneuvers? |
Well, its the same thing with lots of skills in SW and other RPGs as well. If I learn to fire a small caliber pistol (hould out blaster) how is it that I can also now fire a small cannon (e-web)?
If you think that the starfighter/space transports distinction is important, stick with it. If you think its fun to have the 'fly boy' be able to fly most ships (while still having some other skills, then simplify.
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Azai
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Posts: 248
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:19 am Post subject: |
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When thinking about what you said ZzaphodD I kinda went with a middle ground.
Before I talked about designing a set of skills for Non-FS, mostly combat, but this was something I added. Ace Pilot, if you take it you can treat starfighter piloting as both that and space transports.
This why I don't have to go resign all my NPCs, but also give the players a chance to be that fly boy. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Azai wrote: | When thinking about what you said ZzaphodD I kinda went with a middle ground.
Before I talked about designing a set of skills for Non-FS, mostly combat, but this was something I added. Ace Pilot, if you take it you can treat starfighter piloting as both that and space transports.
This why I don't have to go resign all my NPCs, but also give the players a chance to be that fly boy. |
I sometimes apply an unfamiliarity penalty when a character is faced with a new type of spaceship for the first time. This is mostly an IG mechanic depending on the characters background. For example, even though a Starfighter Pilot still has the general skill Starship Piloting, it is understood that his main experience comes from starfighters. When faced with a Space Transport the first couple of times, he will perhaps suffer a -5 penalty to his skill roll until we (or I) agree that he is now familiar with that type of vessel. This could also apply to a Tramp Freighter captain maneuvering a Mining Ship, even though the ship normally goes under the 'Space Transports' skill. So, its not only a bonus.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I liken combining those 2 to taking a fighter pilot and sticking him in a jumbo. Sure the pilot can operate it, but is he gonna be as able to pull off maneuvers? |
As someone with keen interest in aeronautics, especially fighter aircraft, and a little time at the controls in a small aircraft, I'll answer a qualified yes. Some planes can't handle maneuvers that fighters can pull, (which is why they make fighters,) but the execution of the maneuver doesn't really depend on different principals. However, A 777 pilot probably would not be qualified to perform his normal flight maneuvers in an F-16 without some further training. Everything happens faster in the little plane, and just because you can pull a hard turn in a commercial jet doesn't mean you're prepared to pull a sustained 9G turn in a fighter.
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Nico_Davout
Commander
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | However, A 777 pilot probably would not be qualified to perform his normal flight maneuvers in an F-16 without some further training. Everything happens faster in the little plane, and just because you can pull a hard turn in a commercial jet doesn't mean you're prepared to pull a sustained 9G turn in a fighter. |
That's true, but the technology in SW is different. There is no problem with G and maneuvers as we see throughout the movies. You want to spin, you spin and suffer no consequence. As we can see Luke Skywalker could fly X-wing with no problems although this was his first time in a starfighter. Think about Earth pilot who has pilot only small engine plane and then was given F-16. In SW there is no problem for that. That is why I also believe that there should be just one piloting skill for starships.
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Han Solo shot first, midichlosomething do not exist, Rebel Alliance was created as in the WEG books and indoctrination theory is the true ending of ME3. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Nico_Davout wrote: | | ...As we can see Luke Skywalker could fly X-wing with no problems although this was his first time in a starfighter. Think about Earth pilot who has pilot only small engine plane and then was given F-16. In SW there is no problem for that. That is why I also believe that there should be just one piloting skill for starships. |
That is a reasonable rationale for collapsing skills. You could also use Anakin's ability to fly various starfighters, the G9 Rigger freighter Twilight, and that CIS capital ship he crashlanded on Coruscant without killing himself in RotS to argue starfigher = transport = capital ship.
On the other hand, the differentiation allows my wife's freighter captain to outfly my starfigher pilot when on her own ship (and vice versa) which to seems right to me. If you have a lot of pilots and various ships specialization allows differentiation. If you have few pilots and many ships, consolidation allows the pilot to shine in different situations. |
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