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MasterKazur
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 107
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 Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:38 am Post subject: Double-bladed Lightsaber (Lightstaff) |
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How do you guys handle this weapon in your games?
I remember when I first started GM'ing (about the time Episode I came out) one of the Jedi in my campaign built one.
The way I handled the mechanics back then was simple:
...The Jedi recieves a +1D bonus to parry when wielding the weapon, but the difficulty to use is Very Difficult.
I later discovered the official version of this weapon in the Jedi Academy Sourcebook, in which the base damage of the weapon is 6D (rather than 5D for a normal lightsaber). But since it wasn't really a double-bladed lightsaber in the novels, but rather a dual-length lightsaber, can this really be considered canon?
Anyway, do any of you guys use other mechanics in your game? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:10 am Post subject: |
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I gave it a +1D to attack and parry, with the diff at Very Difficult
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JT Swift
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Austin Texas
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:35 am Post subject: |
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I can't see why hitting the target would be any more difficult with 2xBladed sabre. However you would be MUCH more likely to hurt yourself when using such a weapon.
My rules are...
+1D to defense.
+1 to attacks (the longer handle would allow for more leverage)
BUT the user takes full damage on a roll of 15 or less (instead of the usual 10).
Only the most skilled of swordsmen can use such a weapon confidently.
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MasterKazur
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| JT Swift wrote: | I can't see why hitting the target would be any more difficult with 2xBladed sabre. However you would be MUCH more likely to hurt yourself when using such a weapon.
My rules are...
+1D to defense.
+1 to attacks (the longer handle would allow for more leverage)
BUT the user takes full damage on a roll of 15 or less (instead of the usual 10).
Only the most skilled of swordsmen can use such a weapon confidently. |
I like the idea of increasing the likelyhood of hitting yourself with the saber.
But I think that would be more or less implied in the "Very Difficult" level.
For instance:
If you swing a lightsaber (Difficult) with a Dex of 3D you would have to roll at least 6 not to injure yourself.
If you pick up a double bladed (VD) you would need to roll at least 11.
So in a way the higher difficulty also makes it much more likely that a novice will injure himself with the weapon.
A two-bladed weapon is infact a much more difficult weapon to wield, but I know you don't agree and your way of doing the mechanics is perfectly fine.
About the +1 to attacks:... hmm... I don't know. Does anything in the RAW even give something as triviel as a +1 to skill? I means I know some armor does to strength to resist damage, but to a skill??? I've never seen that. |
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Fallon Kell
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Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| JT Swift wrote: | | I can't see why hitting the target would be any more difficult with 2xBladed sabre. |
It's because the other blade denies the wielder use of certain more natural positions and grips.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, with regards to a Jedi hitting himself with a saber, I prefer Bren's take. In all the films, we never see a Jedi hit himself with a saber. We do, however, see a Jedi lose his grip on the saber. I would suggest keeping the "slash yourself" rule strictly for characters attempting to use a saber untrained, while characters who have Lightsaber as a skill have the option of dropping their saber rather than taking damage.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. However, I think you could hurt yourself with a double bladed saber with a very low roll. If you try and use it like a sword, then you have one blade pointed at your enemy, and one pointed at your sensitive parts...
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | I agree. However, I think you could hurt yourself with a double bladed saber with a very low roll. If you try and use it like a sword, then you have one blade pointed at your enemy, and one pointed at your sensitive parts... |
A fair point. Although if a Jedi specialized in Lightstaff...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3191
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Meh... I'd treat a double bladed lightsaber as an entirely separate skill. Since you can't "specialize" in lightsaber, why should you get to specialize in a more powerful variant and pay less to advance the skill?
How I handle it is like this: The user can either make one extra attack with no MAP on the attacks (still counts as two actions for other skills' MAPs); OR can make an attack and a parry with no MAP (still counts as two actions for other skills). The difficulty is very difficult (often 25 or higher). The normal risk of hitting yourself is present. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Why can't you specialize? Not just because WEG says you can't. The WEG rules were established before the EU introduced the idea of variant lightsabers, so there is no reason you can't allow lightsaber specialization for specific lightsaber types.
The idea for MAP countering is alright, but you get the same effect by allowing +1D to attack and defense.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Why can't you specialize? Not just because WEG says you can't. The WEG rules were established before the EU introduced the idea of variant lightsabers, so there is no reason you can't allow lightsaber specialization for specific lightsaber types. |
If you allowed specalization you'd have to remove the melee parry and brawling parry to be fair otherwise a specialization in Lightstaff can be used for attack and defence but a specialization in vibrorapier can't.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | Why can't you specialize? Not just because WEG says you can't. The WEG rules were established before the EU introduced the idea of variant lightsabers, so there is no reason you can't allow lightsaber specialization for specific lightsaber types. |
If you allowed specalization you'd have to remove the melee parry and brawling parry to be fair otherwise a specialization in Lightstaff can be used for attack and defence but a specialization in vibrorapier can't. |
Already done IMC. I never thought it was realistic that you needed two separate skills for Melee Combat. I just have characters roll Melee Parry or Lightsaber for both attack and defense rolls.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3191
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | Why can't you specialize? Not just because WEG says you can't. The WEG rules were established before the EU introduced the idea of variant lightsabers, so there is no reason you can't allow lightsaber specialization for specific lightsaber types.
The idea for MAP countering is alright, but you get the same effect by allowing +1D to attack and defense. |
No you don't. You get +1D to attack and defense. Which means that you get a free die when taking a single action that is not generated by any kind of mastery of the weapon. Making a single attack with a double sided weapon is no more effective than making a single attack with a normal weapon. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | No you don't. You get +1D to attack and defense. Which means that you get a free die when taking a single action that is not generated by any kind of mastery of the weapon. Making a single attack with a double sided weapon is no more effective than making a single attack with a normal weapon. |
Based on what I have read, a lightstaff provides more benefits than just being able to attack or defend against two attacks at once, with the trade-off of being more difficult to use, so giving a +1D bonus allows the lightstaff wielder to better perform multiple actions (because the +1D bonus counters the first MAP), as well as be more versatile when attacking or defending against a single opponent. It's not about making a more effective single attack; it's about using the versatility of your weapon to attack more effectively, by using your weapon to more effectively attack from multiple angles in quick succession.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree. That's why I don't give a +1D, and instead use the method I described. |
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