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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Very.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3191
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | The formula for kinetic energy is E=(mv^2)/2. We will simplify the problem by assuming that each fighter uses his entire body mass.* Let't get their respective masses. Bruce Lee weighs 135 pounds, that is 61.23 kg. Mike Tyson weighs 218 pounds, that is 98.88 kg. Let's suppose Mike hits at 25mph, that's 40.23 km/hr. After doing some math, we see that for Bruce to hit harder than Mike, Bruce needs his punch velocity to be > 51.12 km/hr. Physics says he just needs to punch a lot faster. No mysticism needed.
* I don't know how much of their body mass they use when punching, but it seems reasonable to assume that Mike punches with more mass than Bruce. |
Sigh.... so what math formula applies to using the Force? How do we calculate the difference between Anakin's power and a "normal" Force user? I mean... since we're doing away with mysticism. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:02 am Post subject: |
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I thought we were talking about Bruce Lee and Mike Tyson, you know real people.  Not an imaginary world where a little green muppet can levitate an X-wing space ship. |
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3191
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Ah... so I see we are on the same page after all... kinda... sorta... ? |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | Ah... so I see we are on the same page after all... kinda... sorta... ? |
Yes. Exactly sorta.  |
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Azai
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Posts: 248
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Sooo, back on topic
I've actually adopted Esoomian idea of not allowing soak damage. Just in the case of scale. Also I am still thinking about how to handle the big creatures. (Krayt Dragons) and such with lightsabers.
Otherwise it seems like it is workin like a charm. Those players that aren't Jedi have a little more edge, while the players that are still have a bit of an advantage. It has also allowed a split between extreme force users and heavy lightsaber users. As putting Cps in one doesn't necessarily improve the other now. (In terms of Control, Sense toward Lightsabers) |
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Azai wrote: | Sooo, back on topic
I've actually adopted Esoomian idea of not allowing soak damage. Just in the case of scale. Also I am still thinking about how to handle the big creatures. (Krayt Dragons) and such with lightsabers.
Otherwise it seems like it is workin like a charm. Those players that aren't Jedi have a little more edge, while the players that are still have a bit of an advantage. It has also allowed a split between extreme force users and heavy lightsaber users. As putting Cps in one doesn't necessarily improve the other now. (In terms of Control, Sense toward Lightsabers) |
I know WEG might have given me the evil eye for suggesting this, but you might consider making those big creatures a larger scale, and applying 2E die caps.
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MA-3PO
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Olathe, Kansas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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I like the idea of lightsabers doing Str+5D. I don't see lightsabers as being able to cut through anything instantly without any help. In TPM we see Qui-gon cutting through the blast door and it took time. Later when Obi-wan is shafted, Maul is raking his lightsaber along the edge of the pit. If they magically cut through anything, you would have seen molten strips of metal falling down on Obi-wan. Instead it's just a shower of sparks.
In ESB you see Vader cutting through conduits with one strike. I think this is testament to his powerful strength.
Hence Str+5D damage makes a lot of sense. |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Azai wrote: | Sooo, back on topic
I've actually adopted Esoomian idea of not allowing soak damage. Just in the case of scale. Also I am still thinking about how to handle the big creatures. (Krayt Dragons) and such with lightsabers.
Otherwise it seems like it is workin like a charm. Those players that aren't Jedi have a little more edge, while the players that are still have a bit of an advantage. It has also allowed a split between extreme force users and heavy lightsaber users. As putting Cps in one doesn't necessarily improve the other now. (In terms of Control, Sense toward Lightsabers) |
The idea works best if you bump bigger creatures into a higher scale (like speeder scale, or occasionally walker scale) or you make them extra difficult to kill... similar to the special ability of the Gen Dai
| MA-3PO wrote: | | I like the idea of lightsabers doing Str+5D |
I really don't like this idea, a lightsaber blade would really need to have mass for strength to come into play. If it's just outputting heat or something then the stronger you swing it the faster is should move and the faster it moves the less time it has in contact with a substance so that means it actually does less damage.
That is just my opinion however. If it works for you then more power to you.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| MA-3PO wrote: | | I like the idea of lightsabers doing Str+5D. I don't see lightsabers as being able to cut through anything instantly without any help. In TPM we see Qui-gon cutting through the blast door and it took time. |
Don't be so sure...
| Quote: | | Hence Str+5D damage makes a lot of sense. |
I've been using a rule for persistent damage, that certain weapons (like lightsabers, plasma torches, chainsaws, etc.) will inflict gradually increasing damage simply by being in constant contact. For every round of continuous successful attack with a persistent weapon, the damage dice increases by +1D per round. Damage is rolled normally, with the damage bonus increasing until the target is overwhelmed...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| MA-3PO wrote: | I like the idea of lightsabers doing Str+5D. I don't see lightsabers as being able to cut through anything instantly without any help. In TPM we see Qui-gon cutting through the blast door and it took time. Later when Obi-wan is shafted, Maul is raking his lightsaber along the edge of the pit. If they magically cut through anything, you would have seen molten strips of metal falling down on Obi-wan. Instead it's just a shower of sparks.
In ESB you see Vader cutting through conduits with one strike. I think this is testament to his powerful strength.
Hence Str+5D damage makes a lot of sense. |
I'm not necessarily opposed to this point of view, but there are some things to consider: Darth Maul could have just been grazing the edge of the pit, with no ground extending beyond the width of his blade. Or the shavings could have been so thin they just turned to sparks. You see do Vader cutting through conduits with one strike, but you also see Luke chop through some pretty thick chunks of metal in one blow. Obi Wan takes off an arm almost effortlessly. (Arms, being full of water are as hard to cut with heat as metal conduits.)
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Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
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MA-3PO
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Olathe, Kansas
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: |
| MA-3PO wrote: | | I like the idea of lightsabers doing Str+5D |
I really don't like this idea, a lightsaber blade would really need to have mass for strength to come into play. If it's just outputting heat or something then the stronger you swing it the faster is should move and the faster it moves the less time it has in contact with a substance so that means it actually does less damage.
That is just my opinion however. If it works for you then more power to you. |
I agree there is no weight but there has to be something physical there besides heat. Otherwise objects that don't instantly vaporize would "stop" the projection of the blade. You also wouldn't have blaster bolts or other lightsaber blades bouncing away from each other. |
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3191
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| MA-3PO wrote: | I like the idea of lightsabers doing Str+5D. I don't see lightsabers as being able to cut through anything instantly without any help. In TPM we see Qui-gon cutting through the blast door and it took time. Later when Obi-wan is shafted, Maul is raking his lightsaber along the edge of the pit. If they magically cut through anything, you would have seen molten strips of metal falling down on Obi-wan. Instead it's just a shower of sparks.
In ESB you see Vader cutting through conduits with one strike. I think this is testament to his powerful strength.
Hence Str+5D damage makes a lot of sense. |
The other thing to consider is that with the RAW, you can REDUCE the damage instead of increase it: Darth Maul may have been reducing his damage when he raked the edge of that pit.
Also, watch the fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin. As they fight through the hallway, they cut up the walls during their attacks.
Another thing to consider, and this is a tangent, is that in the deleted scenes, Anakin uses his lightsaber to weld a tunnel shut. So not only did he not cut through the metal, he fused it together with his lightsaber. |
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Azai
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Posts: 248
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The idea works best if you bump bigger creatures into a higher scale (like speeder scale, or occasionally walker scale) or you make them extra difficult to kill... similar to the special ability of the Gen Dai |
Well, what I was actually speaking to was the Jedi not being able to do as much damage as I want. 3D(Strength) 5D(Lightsaber) 8D damage. Krayt Dragons has around 11D strength?
A 3D difference. Maybe if I did up the scale, and then JUST used the scale difference it might be a little better. Or maybe that creatures like that use at least half their strength and maybe the scale difference. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| MA-3PO wrote: | | I like the idea of lightsabers doing Str+5D. |
I don't. It makes a lightsaber seem like a vibrobattleax and that has a much less mystical tone. I see the prototypical Jedi more as a thin, ascetic zen buddhist monk who does damage by virtue of his skill & connection to the force, not a bulked out and ripped bruiser like most depictions of Conan, e.g. Arnold, who does damage by virtue of his big, bulky muscles. But that may just be me. |
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