| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
|
 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:43 am Post subject: Command Skill Variant |
 |
|
I for one, don't like the likmit imposed to the Command skill for combined actions in 2R&E of 1 character per D on skill. Basically the best gneral in the galaxy won't be able to command more than 16 men!
My propsed fix is that the 1D per character is a threshold. If a character commands more than that, increase the difficulty by 1 level per doubling.
In addition, troops desined to work together as a team (like a squad of commandos) reduce the difficulty one step. As would a group that have some means to aid coordination (like everyone linked together through comlinks).
Now Clone Commandersand Battle Droids can actually coordinate a decent sized group. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Guardian_A
Commodore
Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 1654
Location: South Dakota, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Command Skill Variant |
|
|
| atgxtg wrote: | I for one, don't like the limit imposed to the Command skill for combined actions in 2R&E of 1 character per D on skill. Basically the best gneral in the galaxy won't be able to command more than 16 men!
My propsed fix is that the 1D per character is a threshold. If a character commands more than that, increase the difficulty by 1 level per doubling.
In addition, troops desined to work together as a team (like a squad of commandos) reduce the difficulty one step. As would a group that have some means to aid coordination (like everyone linked together through comlinks).
Now Clone Commanders and Battle Droids can actually coordinate a decent sized group. |
This is the system I have always used. Its always worked well for me.
The following list is the maximum number of troops the character can command successfully with no difficulty modifiers. Using these numbers give someone like Grand Admiral Thrawn nearly unquestioned authority in his fleet, but somewhat shakier ability in the empire as a whole. While this still leaves a squad leader a reasonable ammount of control over his own squad.
1D=1 Troop
2D=5 Troops
3D=10 Troops
4D=25 Troops
5D=50 Troops
6D=100 Troops
7D=500 Troops
8D=1,000 Troops
9D=2,500 Troops
10D=5,000 Troops
11D=10,000 Troops
Above that I add a zero for each die added. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Command Skill Variant |
|
|
| Guardian_A wrote: | This is the system I have always used. Its always worked well for me....
10D=5,000 Troops
11D=10,000 Troops
Above that I add a zero for each die added. |
While that definitely improves over the RAW it still has problems since Army generals would seem to have unrealistically high command scores.
One thing is we need to distinguish between is supervise and lead. A good leader can lead many people. But people are only able to supervise around 6-10 direct reports. Even great leaders don't directly supervise scores of people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guardian_A
Commodore
Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 1654
Location: South Dakota, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Command Skill Variant |
|
|
| Bren wrote: | | Guardian_A wrote: | This is the system I have always used. Its always worked well for me....
10D=5,000 Troops
11D=10,000 Troops
Above that I add a zero for each die added. |
While that definitely improves over the RAW it still has problems since Army generals would seem to have unrealistically high command scores.
One thing is we need to distinguish between is supervise and lead. A good leader can lead many people. But people are only able to supervise around 6-10 direct reports. Even great leaders don't directly supervise scores of people. |
I use it as a baseline. If someone is commanding a smaller group, then they would have better control over those troops.
With that said, I've never had a player with more than about 5D in command, so its never been called into serious question.
On the other hand, if you want to look at deligation of authority, you can look at it like this: The Emperor has about 10D in command. If he commands the head of the Imperial Navy, the head of the Imperial Army, the head of the Stormtrooper corps, the head of the ISB, etc, his command rating would be more than enough to keep a firm hand on the entire empire, . . . . . . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I7d rather a smoother pression that could be remembered than
1D=1 Troop
2D=5 Troops
3D=10 Troops
4D=25 Troops
5D=50 Troops
6D=100 Troops
7D=500 Troops
8D=1,000 Troops
9D=2,500 Troops
10D=5,000 Troops
11D=10,000 Troops |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Command Skill Variant |
|
|
| atgxtg wrote: | I for one, don't like the likmit imposed to the Command skill for combined actions in 2R&E of 1 character per D on skill. Basically the best gneral in the galaxy won't be able to command more than 16 men!
|
If you look at mil structure, the higher ups DON'T command 100s of troops themselves. They order the S echelon, who order the company commanders, who order the Platoon commanders, who order the Squad leaders, who order the fire team leaders, who order the troops...
So lets say i have 4 men to a fire team, 1 team leader
3 fire teams to a squad with a grenadier and a squad leader
3 squads to a platoon
3 platoons to a company
5 companies to a battalion (which is how us seabees are organized).
The CO orders the S3 to do X.
The S3 orders the company commanders (5 people)
who then orders the platoon commanders (3 people)
who then orders the squad leaders (3 people)
who then order the fire team leaders (3 people)
who then order the fire team..
So at no point in the chain is anyone ordering more than 6 people around.
ALSO as per the rules
| Code: | If a task is very easy and the characters are highly
skilled or experienced, you may even allow a leader to
combine actions for more characters than he has command
skill dice. |
So by that, since i would rate all imperials as being experienced/skilled, their tasking of shooting (which is where most commands are rolled for) can always override the D limit...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There could also be rules for communications and data networks providing Command bonuses, allowing a single person to command larger numbers of subordinates because he is able to communicate directly with large numbers of them simultaneously and observe their actions in real-time.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Command Skill Variant |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | I for one, don't like the likmit imposed to the Command skill for combined actions in 2R&E of 1 character per D on skill. Basically the best gneral in the galaxy won't be able to command more than 16 men!
|
If you look at mil structure, the higher ups DON'T command 100s of troops themselves. They order the S echelon, who order the company commanders, who order the Platoon commanders, who order the Squad leaders, who order the fire team leaders, who order the troops... |
Yes, but the bonuses don't stack.
For example, lets say we got a group of soldiers, all of whom have 6D in Command. The first guy commands 6 guys, and gets a 2D bonus. which we will say he uses to boost the command skill of his subordinate by 2D, giving him a 8D Command skill. This allows him to command 8 people, good enough for a 2D+2 bonus. Again this is passed on to another guy's Command skill, raing that up to 8D+2, allowinghim to command 8 people, and capping off the bonus.
And that is assuming the combined bonus raises the limit on he number of people you can command, and that the MAPs don't reduce it.
There are really only two ways around the cap. This first if for a highly skilled commander to use the combined action bonus to raise his own Command skill multiple times before giving someone a big skill bonus. This is stupid.
The second way is for mutiple commanders to command several small groups with one common guy in each group who recieves the bonus, and suffers mega MAPs. This is even stupider. Having every officer on the ship commanding you to shoot that incoming fighter doesn't make you any more effective. Quite the opposite.
Now what I want is:
1) Field commanders to be able to order the men (or droids) around hem on a battle field to do something, like we see in the films.
2) A quick way to abstact the results of captial ship combat. I do not want to have to go down through the chain of command every time someone fires a turbolaser. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Command Skill Variant |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | If you look at mil structure, the higher ups DON'T command 100s of troops themselves. They order the S echelon, who order the company commanders, who order the Platoon commanders, who order the Squad leaders, who order the fire team leaders, who order the troops... |
Yet, we see commanders before the advent of mass communications and small but powerful radios, who do give commands to large numbers of troops in person. Even if it is little more than "follow me." Having troops in a formation e.g. line, column, wedge etc. allowed one person to command many at one time without having to pass orders down a sequential chain of command all the way down to file leaders.
| atgxtg wrote: | Now what I want is:
1) Field commanders to be able to order the men (or droids) around hem on a battle field to do something, like we see in the films.
2) A quick way to abstact the results of captial ship combat. I do not want to have to go down through the chain of command every time someone fires a turbolaser. |
I think you have nicely lined out the goal. Personally I find the command skill a bit abstract and odd to use as a mechanism of determining how many turbolasers can combine their fire on a single target. But I agree some mechanism is needed. Especially with ships like the ISD-I that cannot damage another ISD-I without combining fire. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Yes, but the bonuses don't stack. |
Maybe not explicitly, but many groups i have played with why run it like i showed above (and in the other thread) DO have it stack.. so those higher ups can command lots n lots of troops for some bad @$$ levels of damage!!!
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | Quote: | | Yes, but the bonuses don't stack. |
Maybe not explicitly, but many groups i have played with why run it like i showed above (and in the other thread) DO have it stack.. so those higher ups can command lots n lots of troops for some bad @$$ levels of damage!!! |
That's not what the RAW says though.
It also seems a bit peculiar and unintuitive, not to mention undramatic, to me to imagine an Imperial General ordering his battallion commanders, "Give the order to all troops. Nobody shoot the droids, the girl, the hairy creature, or the handsome dark haired, guy. I want all of you to concentrate your fire on the short blond kid." The battalion commanders than pass that down to their company commanders, who pass it down to their platoon commanders, who pass it down to the squad leaders, who pass it down to their section leaders (since squad leaders don't have an 8D+ command) who pass it down to the 3 or 4 troopers with them. Resulting in Luke Skywalker getting blasted by a Legion of Stormtroopers for tens of dice extra to hit and damage. 
I think something different is called for. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
