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Riot Troopers?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:52 am    Post subject: Riot Troopers? Reply with quote

So, I'm working on a revision of the Imperial OB, and I had the idea of a stormtrooper equipped with a power shield, ala the Gungans in E1. The way I figure it, the Empire must, on occasion face combat in close terrain against enemies who specialize in melee combat. In response, I'm seeing the Empire fielding troops that fight in close ranks like Roman legionnaires or modern riot police, using a power shield as portable cover and fighting around the edges of the shield with a force pike or a heavy blaster pistol (or even a heavy blaster pistol with a mini-force pike fitted as a bayonet.).

Thoughts?
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Guardian_A
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did something like that once.

I took Imperial Army Troops and changed the following:

Melee Parry 3D
Melee 3D+1

Equipment:
Blaster Pistol (4D)
Field Armor & Helmet (+1D physical, +2 energy)
Helmet Comlink
Utility Belt w/Supplies
Stun Baton (Z2) (Str+1D or 5D Stun / two settings)
Czerka T-289 Gas Grenade (4D/2D/1D Stun)
Riot Shield (4D Stun)

The last three items that appear on the equipment list appear in the Fantastic Technology: Personal Gear book.
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TyCaine
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hate to say I like Guardian_A's thought better, Riot patrol seems more suited to Imperial Army (or perhaps more likely local Garrison Army Troopers) rather than Stormtroopers, as the idea (at least in my Star Wars galaxy) is that the Stormtroopers are the elite shock troops, sent in to take down a target hard and fast, or in the cases of smaller numbers on board ships, used to enforce the Emperor's will and as elite boarding troops.

The idea of a Stormtrooper working Riot detail, effectively there as crowd control, doesn't fit into my idea of what they stand for, particularly since their numbers (as I recall) compared to Imperial Army troopers are significantly smaller.

However, each to their own ideas, and I'd still be interested in stats and/or equipment ideas you have for your RTs.


T.C.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I called them Riot Troopers only for lack of a better name. These wouldn't be Riot troops per se, merely equipped similarly to them. These troops would be trained more like Roman Legionnaires or a Greek Phalanx, fighting in close formation and using their shields to create a defensive barrier against incoming fire. Modern SWAT teams use combat shields in a variety of situations, and I can't help but wonder if similar situations might present themselves in the SWU.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unlike police in the US, stormtroopers aren't worried about collateral damage or civilian casualties. I assume a stormtrooper's best defense is a mixture of blaster fire and grenades. Why go toe-to-toe with a Gungan barbarian when you can just shoot him down with precision blaster fire or blow him up with a few frag grenades?

Imperial guards have forcepikes not because they are expected to engage in riot duty, but bacause (a) they are ceremonial and (b) they are more useful against any lone Jedi that might have been missed by Order 66 and decided to come gunning for Palpatine.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
Unlike police in the US, stormtroopers aren't worried about collateral damage or civilian casualties. I assume a stormtrooper's best defense is a mixture of blaster fire and grenades. Why go toe-to-toe with a Gungan barbarian when you can just shoot him down with precision blaster fire or blow him up with a few frag grenades?


That was in my original post, that the Empire might find itself in situations where a melee oriented combatant would come in handy (like against the Ewoks on Endor). This would hardly be an original idea in the sci-fi world. Apart from the Gungans in E1, there are enemies in Halo that use energy shields to provide defensive cover
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Bren
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hand-held shields didn't work well once the droids closed inside the big shield nor did the big shield seem to stop something thrown (at least from the inside) so I'm guessing it wouldn't stop thrown grenades from the outside. So I think closing, grenades, and blasters should work fine.

I won't even attempt to explain how Ewoks with STR 1D/3D were able to do so much damage to stormtroopers with STR 2D+ and +2D physical armor. Suffice it to say, if armor, blasters, and AT-ST's couldn't get the job done, shields wouldn't have helped. Wink

I tend to agree that riot troops would be local not Imperial forces and stormtroopers with swords and shields has the wrong vibe for me. I think a Roman testudo or a hoplite phalanx just puts all the stormies nice and close together and that is just asking the opposition to counter with a grenades, molotov cocktails, or IEDs.

Perhaps shield equipped troops might fit better as Imperial Dungeoneers or some arm of the Inquistorate for collecting important prisoners. If the shield stops a lightsaber, maybe it would help when collecting the odd padawan that escaped Order 66.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
The hand-held shields didn't work well once the droids closed inside the big shield nor did the big shield seem to stop something thrown (at least from the inside) so I'm guessing it wouldn't stop thrown grenades from the outside. So I think closing, grenades, and blasters should work fine.


I have other ideas for them as well. A line of stormtroopers equipped with force shields would be great for providing a mobile barricade to defend other troopers from incoming blaster fire. As for grenades? Maybe a shoulder-mounted automated blaster that engages grenades and other projectiles while they are still in mid-air? This is Sci-Fi; we can do whatever we want. :D

Quote:
I won't even attempt to explain how Ewoks with STR 1D/3D were able to do so much damage to stormtroopers with STR 2D+ and +2D physical armor. Suffice it to say, if armor, blasters, and AT-ST's couldn't get the job done, shields wouldn't have helped. :wink:


Considering that the RPG is intended to be a reflection of the film, it strikes me as more of a failure on WEG's behalf for not appropriately statting the Ewoks so that they could actually take out Stormtroopers with bows and arrows.

Quote:
I tend to agree that riot troops would be local not Imperial forces and stormtroopers with swords and shields has the wrong vibe for me. I think a Roman testudo or a hoplite phalanx just puts all the stormies nice and close together and that is just asking the opposition to counter with a grenades, molotov cocktails, or IEDs.


See above.

Quote:
Perhaps shield equipped troops might fit better as Imperial Dungeoneers or some arm of the Inquistorate for collecting important prisoners. If the shield stops a lightsaber, maybe it would help when collecting the odd padawan that escaped Order 66.


I had an idea for this for the Imperial Guard, as in equipping them with force shields to pair with their force pikes. My thinking is that, in a galaxy where the primary weapon is an energy blaster, the Imperial Guard, for all their training, have nothing with which to actually stop a blaster bolt apart from their own bodies.

For the shield itself, I picture something modular, like the fan-metal effect from Stargate. The shield can retract down to something the size of a buckler on the character's forearm, but can expand out to something approximating the size of Roman scutum. The shield itself would be relatively fragile, but it would serve as the framework for the protective energy shield.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
...A line of stormtroopers equipped with force shields...
...seems to be what you really want. So you should go for that. It seems an unsupportable throwback in tactics and tech to me, but you are liking it a lot so full speed ahead.
Quote:
Bren wrote:
I won't even attempt to explain how Ewoks with STR 1D/3D were able to do so much damage to stormtroopers with STR 2D+ and +2D physical armor. Suffice it to say, if armor, blasters, and AT-ST's couldn't get the job done, shields wouldn't have helped. Wink

Considering that the RPG is intended to be a reflection of the film, it strikes me as more of a failure on WEG's behalf for not appropriately statting the Ewoks so that they could actually take out Stormtroopers with bows and arrows.
Oh those Ewoks. Rolling Eyes For their stats see: Noghri. Laughing

Seriously, George wanted primitives and mysticism to defeat the science and elite troops of the Empire. Originally the primitives were supposed to be the Wookiees. Seven foot tall primitives overcoming stormtroopers with archaic weapons made some sense to. Why anyone thought 2-3' tall teddy bears could fill those footprints I'll never know. Rolling Eyes Some things can't be understood and should probably just be ignored.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
...seems to be what you really want. So you should go for that. It seems an unsupportable throwback in tactics and tech to me, but you are liking it a lot so full speed ahead.


Exactly. After all, there are plenty of examples in the films of throwback technology and tactics. The Gungans vs. the TF droids in E1 is a perfect example; both sides were using highly advanced technology to fight what was essentially a set-piece battle out of the Dark Ages or the Napoleonic Wars. Never mind the fact that the most formidable warriors in this galaxy we play in are equipped with swords.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Riot Troopers? Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
So, I'm working on a revision of the Imperial OB, and I had the idea of a stormtrooper equipped with a power shield, ala the Gungans in E1. The way I figure it, the Empire must, on occasion face combat in close terrain against enemies who specialize in melee combat. In response, I'm seeing the Empire fielding troops that fight in close ranks like Roman legionnaires or modern riot police, using a power shield as portable cover and fighting around the edges of the shield with a force pike or a heavy blaster pistol (or even a heavy blaster pistol with a mini-force pike fitted as a bayonet.).

Thoughts?


My only con here is that riot police is essentially used to control/disperse violent crowds with a minimum of violence. If you dont care about people you could just blast away with rubber bullets. The empire has stun weapons (if they care) and therefore really have no need for this kind of force IMO.
Couruscant guard allready exists, so perhaps on some core worlds (Coruscant at least) the Empire has to keep a non lethal force as well. A variant of the Coruscant Guard with a shield and a long stun baton would be a great idea.

Also, my Stormtrooper Assault troppers (think 40K terminators with stormtrooper-ish armor) has a very powerful force shield in combination with power hammers.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't there riot cops in the Corp Sector Authority? Try searching Han solo and the Corporate sector book.. Since that is also the first place i saw the Riot gun in..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Isn't there riot cops in the Corp Sector Authority? Try searching Han solo and the Corporate sector book.. Since that is also the first place i saw the Riot gun in..


I'm thinking my biggest mistake was calling them Riot Troopers. They could certainly be used in that capacity, but I think I intended them more as close combat specialists, or as defensive specialists to augment other stormtrooper units.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems the question what most people are asking is why you'd bother with any most people are asking is why you'd bother with any sort of close combat equipment when:

a) Ranged fire can take down a close combat based foe before he can attack

b) Bunching up in a shield wall leaves you vulnerable to high explosives and other such weapons.

However if you want to check out Zsinj's Raptors you might see something of a mid point. The Raptors tend to put a lot of faith in the gunline but have close combat weapons and training to supliment it if it fails.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just give the Radiation Zone stormtroopers shields and there ya go!
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