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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | Id also change the consumption in hyperspace. As it is a x0,5 hyperspace engine consumes less fuel per distance than a x2.
Per 6 hours in hyperspace: 1 Cell is the generic rule from GG6.
Modified by hyperspace engine speed
Hyperspace multiplicator / Consumption modifier
x3 / x0,5
x2 / x1 (As per the GG6)
x1 / x3
x0,5 / x6
For example: a x0,5 hyperpspace engine will consume 6 cells per 6 hours of hyperspace travel compared to the 'standard' 1 cell/6 hours for a x2 engine. On the other hand its 4 times as fast.
To save fuel, a ship may go through hyperspace at a lower speed than its maximum. |
The same is true of all of those ratings. A ship with a speed of 20 still consumes one cell per month in realspace regardless of it's mass. Yet a ship with a speed of 4 consumes the exact same amount of cells in a month of realspace despite travelling only one fifth the distance. |
Yeah, but as my players dont hang around flying around in space that much, it doesnt make much difference. Everyone goes at max hyperspace speed all the time though... |
And regarding max hyperspace speed, Im looking at rules for pushing the engines above the normal maximum speed....for those moments when you really have to get there in time and cant do it by navigation...
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The same is true of all of those ratings. A ship with a speed of 20 still consumes one cell per month in realspace regardless of it's mass. Yet a ship with a speed of 4 consumes the exact same amount of cells in a month of realspace despite travelling only one fifth the distance. |
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Yeah, but as my players dont hang around flying around in space that much, it doesnt make much difference. Everyone goes at max hyperspace speed all the time though... |
Perhaps not but they may well rack up a few hours of atmospheric flight here and there and different ships should have very different performances and fuel consumptions in atmosphere.
Also if I look at that table again it says entering hyperspace takes one cell so perhaps it's not speed that is important in hyperspace it's the effort of not returning to realspace. Actually I think I like that idea. Travelling through hyperspace takes no more energy than travelling through realspace (and therefore time spent in hyperspace is added to the time spent in realspace for fuel consumption purposes) but staying in hyperspace takes some effort so every six hours in hyperspace you consume a cell regardless of how fast youre going.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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For me, i have generally gone with a 'rechage/fuel' cost of 1% of the ships cost X number of months needing charging.
Ergo a new YT-1300 is 100,000 new. 1% is 1000 credits. 2 months consumables.. = 2000 credits to fully refuel it.
Need 3 weeks, that would be 750 credits.
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Esoomian
High Admiral
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | For me, i have generally gone with a 'rechage/fuel' cost of 1% of the ships cost X number of months needing charging.
Ergo a new YT-1300 is 100,000 new. 1% is 1000 credits. 2 months consumables.. = 2000 credits to fully refuel it.
Need 3 weeks, that would be 750 credits. |
What do you do when your players steal something that has a price listing of Not available for sale?
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | From the 1st ed of Tramp Freighters..
Cost of recharging fuel cells (most light freighters have 50)
Charging Rate / Cost per Cell
Trickle (1 cell/day) / 5 Cr
Standard (1 cell/hour) / 10 Cr
Fast (4 cells/hour) / 50 Cr
Emergency (20 cells/hour) / 500 Cr*
* They are actually replacing cells.
Fuel Consumption
Entering Hyperspace: 1 Cell
Per 6 hours in Hyperspace: 1 Cell
Per Month of Realspace Op.: 1 Cell
Per hour of Combat Op.: 1 Cell
Per hour of atmospheric flight: 1 Cell |
I'd be tempted to put combat at 1 Cell for every ten minutes. It would make even a heavily armed freighter think twice about fighting at the end of a long trip. |
I don't think that would reasonably represent the massive energy draw of entering hyperspace, though.
It may just be my style of GM-ing, but I prefer to plan my adventures around a consistent universe, rather than fit the universe to my adventures. Because of this, I'd be awfully leery of just arbitrarily multiplying the energy consumption of a ship in combat by 6 times...
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Esoomian
High Admiral
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:33 am Post subject: |
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I have to say it was fairly arbitrary however it was based on the X-Wing novels where Coran Horn commented that the most fuel was consumed by dogfighting and hyperspace barely took any fuel at all.
Also in combat you're using weapons, shields and likely pushing your engines to their limits and given that most combats are unlikely to last ten minutes (how many rounds is that anyway?) I don't think it's too much to say that each combat encounter costs one fuel cell.
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Last edited by Esoomian on Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Praxian
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | For me, i have generally gone with a 'rechage/fuel' cost of 1% of the ships cost X number of months needing charging.
Ergo a new YT-1300 is 100,000 new. 1% is 1000 credits. 2 months consumables.. = 2000 credits to fully refuel it.
Need 3 weeks, that would be 750 credits. |
What do you do when your players steal something that has a price listing of Not available for sale? |
Have something be faulty enough with it that they discard it. OR let them keep it and have the NPC they stole it from start working with their enemies to get their item back. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | For me, i have generally gone with a 'rechage/fuel' cost of 1% of the ships cost X number of months needing charging.
Ergo a new YT-1300 is 100,000 new. 1% is 1000 credits. 2 months consumables.. = 2000 credits to fully refuel it.
Need 3 weeks, that would be 750 credits. |
What do you do when your players steal something that has a price listing of Not available for sale? |
Come up with a "new price" based on things similar..
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | I have to say it was fairly arbitrary however it was based on the X-Wing novels where Coran Horn commented that the most fuel was consumed by dogfighting and hyperspace barely took any fuel at all.
Also in combat you're using weapons, shields and likely pushing your engines to their limits and given that most combats are unlikely to last ten minutes (how many rounds is that anyway?) I don't think it's too much to say that each combat encounter costs one fuel cell. |
I tend to run starfighter combat like modern fighter combat, with 45 minutes of mind-numbing boredom punctuated with 2 minutes of absolute terror. I would count the mind-numbing boredom in with the combat. Anything where the shields are up, really.
Generally, traveling in hyperspace doesn't use much energy, it's just using the hyperspace motivator that expends so much. Tearing a hole in the space time continuum, or whatever, is a fairly difficult task I gather.
| Wookieepedia wrote: | | ...the output of the reactors of many Capital ships rivaled or eclipsed that of a star, and that the energies needed to make hyperspace travel possible were vast... |
Most of space combat is maneuvering, which I just don't see taking up so much energy. Weapons only fire occasionally, so the largest energy draw would be shielding. I just don't see that shielding stacking up so quickly against the "vast" energy requirements of a hyperjump.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | For me, i have generally gone with a 'rechage/fuel' cost of 1% of the ships cost X number of months needing charging.
Ergo a new YT-1300 is 100,000 new. 1% is 1000 credits. 2 months consumables.. = 2000 credits to fully refuel it.
Need 3 weeks, that would be 750 credits. |
I prefer to run costs based on actual numbers of cells instead of just using general assumptions. There are too many factors involved in the pricing of a ship that does not have anything to do with air/water/food/'various other sci-fi stuff' or fuel consumption.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: |
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I have to confess we paid very little attention to restocking and refueling of ships for our characters. I found the posts about the 1st edition fuel cell expenditures and some of the ideas listed very interesting. After reading the comments so far I've drawn the following conclusions.
(1) The exisiting rules are insufficient to reflect actual fuel expenditure in detail for different ship types and cargo loads and for different ship activities.
(2) Opinions differ over the relative fuel expenditures for different ship activities.
- Some see entering/leaving hyperspace as a big expenditure, but time in hyperspace as cheap, while others see time to remain in hyperspace as somewhat energy expensive.
- Some see space combat as very energy intensive (in line with real world dogfighting costs for aircraft) others see that as relatively inexpensive - which would also imply that real space travel is relatively inexpensive.
(3) The lack of consensus on assumptions limits the ability to agree on house rules.
(4) It may be helpful to first create a list of assumptions about how the universe works, that way people can separate disagreements about underlying assumptions from critiques of the house rules that attempt to apply those assumptions.
Thoughts? |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | I have to confess we paid very little attention to restocking and refueling of ships for our characters. I found the posts about the 1st edition fuel cell expenditures and some of the ideas listed very interesting. After reading the comments so far I've drawn the following conclusions.
(1) The exisiting rules are insufficient to reflect actual fuel expenditure in detail for different ship types and cargo loads and for different ship activities.
(2) Opinions differ over the relative fuel expenditures for different ship activities.
- Some see entering/leaving hyperspace as a big expenditure, but time in hyperspace as cheap, while others see time to remain in hyperspace as somewhat energy expensive.
- Some see space combat as very energy intensive (in line with real world dogfighting costs for aircraft) others see that as relatively inexpensive - which would also imply that real space travel is relatively inexpensive.
(3) The lack of consensus on assumptions limits the ability to agree on house rules.
(4) It may be helpful to first create a list of assumptions about how the universe works, that way people can separate disagreements about underlying assumptions from critiques of the house rules that attempt to apply those assumptions.
Thoughts? |
Agreement has no value here, to each their own...
Why I prefer a more detailed system than % of ship costs is because it lends a certain credibility to the whole 'tramp freighter' thing. If that is not important (if your ship is just a mobile weapons platform) then I understand that you dont want to keep messing with fuel consumption and fuel cell recharging.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Agreement has no value here, to each their own... |
I disagree with that. 
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Why I prefer a more detailed system than % of ship costs is because it lends a certain credibility to the whole 'tramp freighter' thing. If that is not important (if your ship is just a mobile weapons platform) then I understand that you dont want to keep messing with fuel consumption and fuel cell recharging. |
Good point. A number of our players are not very interested in keeping track of details like exact number of credits or fuel. And while this works well in a Rebel campaign, it detracts a bit from a tramp freighter campaign. That's why I found the fuel cell idea interesting for exactly a tramp freighter style of campaign. Fortunately, the smuggler captain who is motivated by money is run by a player who roleplays that way even without exact tracking of the money. |
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