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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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 Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:19 am Post subject: Starship Components |
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It always seemed to me that fighters should be able to take out individual weapon emplacements on capital ships. A turbolaser isn't much bigger than a light freighter, so why should you have to roll against the whole hull code of a large ship to break a piece off? So I've started making most minor components of starships count as 1 scale smaller (I use the die cap system). For example, if a fighter pilot wanted to take out a forward heavy turbolaser on a Dreadnaught he would roll to hit the emplacement as if it were a fighter. If the Dreadnaught were to evade, the turbolaser would use that roll. Assuming a hit, the pilot would roll his damage capped at 3. The Dreadnaught would roll its hull capped at three and add that to the shield roll uncapped. The total would be the shields and hull of the turbolaser emplacement. Under this system starfighters (especially those with ion cannons) can actually do something to the large capital ships we see them frequently strafing in the battle of Endor. What do you think?
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Starship Components |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | It always seemed to me that fighters should be able to take out individual weapon emplacements on capital ships...What do you think? |
I agree. We let starfighters strafe capital ships if the shields are down and we treat the weapons and equipment that projects from the hull as starfighter scale. |
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Random Numbers
Commander
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Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:24 am Post subject: |
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It all sounds very reasonable.
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vong
Jedi
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6699
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:59 am Post subject: |
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heh 2 posts and no actual content. are you two just trying to boost your post count? try to add something to the post when you post so we dont have to wade through your posts looking for useful info 
| page 91 SWSeR&E wrote: | Called Shots. Attackers can make a "called shot"
against a small target, such as a specific part of a
target's body or shooting a weapon out of a target's
hand.
Add +1D to the difficulty for a target 10 to 50
centimeters long. Add +4D to the difficulty for a target
one to 10 centimeters long. Add +8D to the difficulty for
a target less than a centimeter long. |
Basically use that chart to. now the scale is all different, so maybe change it to meters.
And yes you do have to roll against the whole hull code. The turbolasers are known targets, so they would probably be the most armoured, knowing the enemy will want to concentrate on those points. if you want to, oh lets say target the BARREL of the turbolaser (a part with the weakest armor) then sure. roll at +8D and id subtract some of the armor of the hull code. otherwise roll your +4D difficulty and then when you score damage, at least you choose where it applies.
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Grimace
Captain
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
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Location: Montana; Big Sky Country
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "Assuming a hit, the pilot would roll his damage capped at 3. The Dreadnaught would roll its hull capped at three and add that to the shield roll uncapped." |
Being a fan of the die cap system, I have to ask.... why is the both the fighter damage and the dreadaught hull capped at 3? One or the other should be capped, but one should be kept the same.
If you say the scales are the same (including for hull resistance to damage) then they would both roll normally because same scales are not capped.
If the Starfighter weapons are smaller than the turbolaser hull because the turbolaser is on a capital ship, then the Starfighter weapons should be capped but the hull resistance for the turbolaser should not be.
Otherwise, I think your idea works well. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| vong wrote: | | heh 2 posts and no actual content. are you two just trying to boost your post count? try to add something to the post when you post so we dont have to wade through your posts looking for useful info |
Well I am. But seriously I did mention two pieces of content.
1) The weapons or equipment has to project from the hull. And hence may not have the full armor. A good example of this is in ANH when the starfighters shoot up weapons emplacements and other bits of the Death Star. You could do this in the old coin operated video game as well. The X-wing novels mention "trench run disease" for repeatedly strafing a Star Destroyer after it's shields were down. And finally, Star Warriors has something similar though, IIR starfighters cannot actually destroy an SD, but they can damage it enough to render it almost useless.
2) I said the shields first had to be down. That gives the SD significant protection from strafing runs.
| page 91 SWSeR&E wrote: | | Called Shots. Attackers can make a "called shot" against a small target... |
Quickly checking Vong's math; so a man is about 200 centimeters
10-50 cm is 5%-25% of the target for +1D difficulty
1-10 cm is 0.5% - 5% of the target for +4D difficulty
<1 cm is <0.5% of the target for +8D difficulty
Assume ~ 200 meter ship then changing centimeters to meters sounds about right. So a turbolaser is 1-10 meters which sounds about right. So Vong's math does indeed check. To hit the turret is +4D. +8D difficulty to me would drop the armor to starfighter scale or at least drop the armor quite a bit since you are effectively dropping your shot right down the barrel, the exhaust port, or what have you.
Plus I like the idea that an unescorted, shieldless capital ship should fear one or more squadrons of starfighters, even ones without bombs, missiles, or torpedoes. Give a swarm of wasps enough time and they will cause you pain.  |
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vong
Jedi
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6699
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Well I am. But seriously I did mention two pieces of content. |
fair enough
As for strafing runs, thats the beauty of it. You are at point blank range, your manoeuvrability has a magnitude higher (scale difference) to hit the thing. I wouldnt even make starfighters roll to hit the ship, i would to hit the turret / barrel though. But at point blank range, its easy to hit things 
so the rules still hold up to your strafing run logic!
I dont fully agree about the shields having to be down, because you can temporary overload them by concentrating your fire on a single point (happens all the times in the books) is most useful for targeting the shield generator (damage delt goes to generator, taking out shields much easier. granted a much harder shot.) but until the shields are down, you will have to get through them (added to their damage resist roll) which could be in-surmountable from a fighter.
As well keep in mind - if the shooter misses by a small amount, the shot probably still hit the ship, just not the guns.
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| vong wrote: | heh 2 posts and no actual content. are you two just trying to boost your post count? try to add something to the post when you post so we dont have to wade through your posts looking for useful info
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I simply answered his question and had nothing further to add that would be of any value to you. So I cut it short just to be nice and spare you of meaningless reading.
Also I didn't know there was a post count competition on the board...
294!
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| vong wrote: | | page 91 SWSeR&E wrote: | Called Shots. Attackers can make a "called shot"
against a small target, such as a specific part of a
target's body or shooting a weapon out of a target's
hand.
Add +1D to the difficulty for a target 10 to 50
centimeters long. Add +4D to the difficulty for a target
one to 10 centimeters long. Add +8D to the difficulty for
a target less than a centimeter long. |
Basically use that chart to. now the scale is all different, so maybe change it to meters. |
Yeah, I use those rules for character scale, but it makes more sense to me to change the scale for larger vehicles.
| vong wrote: |
And yes you do have to roll against the whole hull code. The turbolasers are known targets, so they would probably be the most armoured, knowing the enemy will want to concentrate on those points. |
Ahh, but that's why this post is in house rules, not WEG rules. Historically, a ship's gun emplacements have been armored, but less so than most of the ship. Didn't seem right to me that you should roll against the whole strength of a capital ship. | vong wrote: | | if you want to, oh lets say target the BARREL of the turbolaser (a part with the weakest armor) then sure. roll at +8D and id subtract some of the armor of the hull code. otherwise roll your +4D difficulty and then when you score damage, at least you choose where it applies. |
I would think the barrel (which would be built of thick metal and designed to accommodate repeated exposure to turbolaser blasts) would be the toughest part.
| Grimace wrote: | Being a fan of the die cap system, I have to ask.... why is the both the fighter damage and the dreadaught hull capped at 3? One or the other should be capped, but one should be kept the same.
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An astute observation. I cap the hull because I wanted the hull to be on par with the laser cannons, but I did not cap the shields, because it seems to me that they should be represented at full strength. If the shields are down, I roll both at starfighter scale normally.
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vong
Jedi
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6699
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: |
I would think the barrel (which would be built of thick metal and designed to accommodate repeated exposure to turbolaser blasts) would be the toughest part. |
While you are technically correct, even the slightest change in shape will cause it to misfire strong, yet fragile.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| vong wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: |
I would think the barrel (which would be built of thick metal and designed to accommodate repeated exposure to turbolaser blasts) would be the toughest part. |
While you are technically correct, even the slightest change in shape will cause it to misfire strong, yet fragile. |
So would you run that as rolling against full strength, but if you beat the hull by one or more the weapon is destroyed?
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps the fighters still roll against the full hull of a cap ship for those emplacements, but the Narrower they are aiming for (similar to that called shot penalty listed above) is actually HALVED and used as a bonus to damage..
EG shooting a ship of 200m (keeping with the example). A 1M targe would be at 8d penalty to hit (minus the 6d penalty from scale diff, giving 2d overall penalty to hit). IF you do hit, you add 4d to damage..
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vong
Jedi
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6699
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Perhaps the fighters still roll against the full hull of a cap ship for those emplacements, but the Narrower they are aiming for (similar to that called shot penalty listed above) is actually HALVED and used as a bonus to damage..
EG shooting a ship of 200m (keeping with the example). A 1M targe would be at 8d penalty to hit (minus the 6d penalty from scale diff, giving 2d overall penalty to hit). IF you do hit, you add 4d to damage.. |
exactly!
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
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Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Naw, I've decided on caps, rather than dice for scale. Makes chicken walkers and light tanks worth using.
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JT Swift
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Austin Texas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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I always use the capital ship called shot chart from page 47 of the Rules Companion. It had modifiers for hitting beam weapons, missile weapons, engines, targeting systems, etc.
IIRC it just had a die code for each part of the ship. I just subtract the code from the hull dice )to represent this small system being weaker then the entire ship). I also add the same modifier to the attackers difficulty to hit (to represent the added difficulty for hitting at smaller target). For the targeting rolls I use different color dice for the bonus to the dodges. That way its easy to see if you hit the gun, or just the ship, or missed entirely.
I've found this works so well that I now use the chart for other scale factors. Like if someone wants to use their blaster rifle to shoot out the engin of a landspeeder.
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