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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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I liked Vergere's explanation in Destiny's Way, where she stated that the Light Side and the Dark Side were nothing more than reflections of the Light and Dark within ourselves. That was the main reason for my idea to link Willpower to whether or not a person committed an act that earned them a DSP.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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I hated that from Vergre, as to me the force does have sides, much like life.. Yin and Yang.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | Does the Light Side of the Force also have a will and attempt to dictate player/NPC actions? |
Light Side = Free Will! 
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | | Does the Light Side of the Force also have a will and attempt to dictate player/NPC actions? |
Light Side = Free Will! |
So do Dark Side characters have to contest with the Will of the Light Side then?
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | | Does the Light Side of the Force also have a will and attempt to dictate player/NPC actions? |
Light Side = Free Will! |
So do Dark Side characters have to contest with the Will of the Light Side then? |
Nah, returning to the light side should be an effort, not done with mechanics. The character has to prove itself to be redeemed.
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not talking about a character returning to the Light Side I'm talking about a Dark Side character getting a sudden attack of conscience.
I just find it odd that Light Siders can be driven to acts of evil by the Will of the Dark Side but Dark Siders don't have similar things to fear from the Light Side.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | I'm not talking about a character returning to the Light Side I'm talking about a Dark Side character getting a sudden attack of conscience.
I just find it odd that Light Siders can be driven to acts of evil by the Will of the Dark Side but Dark Siders don't have similar things to fear from the Light Side. |
Oooh, noooo!!
I just helped that old lady across the street, and didnt even throw her at the wall with telekinesis. What is happening to me? 
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Something like that but more hampering with evil plans that hurt people for little or no gain.
"Well I could use telekenesis to dump this toxin in the ocean but the containment unit isn't actually that much further so it's not really out of my way."
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | Something like that but more hampering with evil plans that hurt people for little or no gain.
"Well I could use telekenesis to dump this toxin in the ocean but the containment unit isn't actually that much further so it's not really out of my way." |
What you lack is a proper measurement on how 'good' you are, as opposed to the number of DSPs.
I think it was KOTOR that had light and dark side points, so to speak.
If you had such a mechanic you could incorporate it into the battle between good and bad. As the Will of the Dark Side idea is generally meant to represent 'good characters' losing control to the dark side, I havent given much thought about how it will work once you turn (as those characters either become NPCs or tend to be short lived).
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Any new thoughts on how many bonus dice you are allowed to use and how hard the opposed test should be?
I say:
Half Control number of extra dice as maximum.
bonusDice+dspDice+1Dcumulative against willpower. Failure gives dsp pip.
or you could have the cumulative effect be 2pip.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | | Does the Light Side of the Force also have a will and attempt to dictate player/NPC actions? |
Light Side = Free Will! |
That is what my Jedi PC has learned. The Light Side requires choice. You can choose the light you can choose the dark. But even if you choose the light 99 times, the 100th time you still have to choose. In contrast the Dark seeks to remove your choice. The more often you choose the dark, the less choice you have (until gradually you turn).
But to Esoomian's point on what Dark Siders have to fear - that's a crisis of conscience which causes a loss of DSPs per the RAW. Typically this is triggered by a light sider's actions and/or persuasion. Like Luke entreating his father to turn back to the light. IMO this occurs when the Dark Sider sees some sign that the Light is stronger (or as strong) as the Dark, though this strength could be moral rather than physical - e.g. love, self-sacrifice, etc. |
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Like Luke entreating his father to turn back to the light. IMO this occurs when the Dark Sider sees some sign that the Light is stronger (or as strong) as the Dark, though this strength could be moral rather than physical - e.g. love, self-sacrifice, etc. |
Yes, well I guess that's why Yoda says that there is no turning back from the Dark Side. In order to turn back you have to give in and to positive emotions. Yoda lives by the Jedi Code where emotions are frowned upon.
Did Vader fail or succeed on his willpower roll when he killed the Emperor?
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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I say he succeeded.. big time.
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Dustflier
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 140
Location: Upstate New York
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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In a general sense, with a PC in the place of Vader immediately before he killed the Emperor, I would think that the goals and aspirations of the character would determine the positive or negative of the willpower roll. For example, Vader would have needed to roll very well to overcome the massive hold the Dark Side had on him. However, that is because his motive was to overcome the Emperor in order to save his son.
If the character were driven to kill the Emperor for power or revenge, a willpower roll to stop him from acting out his intense prejudice would be necessary, though. In such a case, it would have been a failed roll if he killed the Emperor.
But yes, he totally rolled a few sixes on the wild die there.
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Any new thoughts on this?
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