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atgxtg
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 Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: |
I meant it as a joke. It sounds like it's just a quirk. I've known a few players like that. While it is frustrating when you are ready to just move along, your solution of moving to someone else may be the best one. |
Sorry. I read more into that. Recently I had to drop some players, and even quit a group becuase some players were just too dumb to play. So I took the statement at face value. Sorry. 
| Bren wrote: |
One other thing I might be tempted to do would be if he hits and clearly rolls well over what's necessary, I'd say something like - "OK your blaster shot hits him in the neck bypassing the armor and killing the stormtrooper." Then if he countinues counting to get the final total, I might say, "well since you rolled all the dice out, go ahead and roll the damage" hoping that he doesn't roll enough damage to kill the stormtrooper this time. The object being to try to get the point across that it's better not to argue with the judge when you are already winning the lawsuit or to frustrate the GM when you are already succeeding at the task at hand. |
Been there, done that. It doesn't work; it's a quirk. I've seen him shoot a B1 battledroid with a starfighter scale weapon, hit, and still continue counter after I've taken the battledroid and some nearby buildings off the battlemat. Sometimes he gives me a look as if to say "He/it/they can't be dead yet, I'm not finished rolling!".
I've mostly switched to a "reverse enigizer bunny" method. "He's still dead."
| Bren wrote: |
This reminds me of a conversation from many years ago about how many players a GM could handle and a notion that some players have a number of 1, some players are a pain and count as 1.5, 2, or even 3, and a few really great players have a number of zero or even -1 or -2. Sounds like you got rid of the high number folks in your group. 8) |
Interesting. There is probably some truth to that. Some players are more trouble to run that others. It is not always a matter o ood/bad players though, I've seen some guys who are good players, but have a Higher number, and some who are bad players buy have a low number. There are some gamers I have seen who are little more than a zero. They do nothing other than sit there and roll dice. They take no effort to run, but are about as fun to run as the faucet. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: |
I have worked with several OCD people... 3 were 'dice countig' 1 was a need freak and 2 were step counters.. |
I'd like to think there is a logical reason behind it all. Something like his years of D&D player have made him ultra conscious about his damage rolls, as he has seen many PCs die needlessness because somebody failed to add up the damage correctly.
I'd like to think that. I know better, but I'd like to think that.
I've considered physically stopping him from counting by covering the dice, but I would feel like I was kicking a puppy. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Why would you feel that way? You are not being harsh/cruel.
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | I've mostly switched to a "reverse enigizer bunny" method. "He's still dead." |
Sounds like re: Counting Guy, if he's otherwise an asset to the group, just ignore it and, as you say, see what some other player is doing. As you say it's a little annoying, but not a huge deal and it doesn't sound like he can really control the behavior so making a big deal of it isn't productive or particularly nice.
| Quote: | | Bren wrote: |
This reminds me of a conversation from many years ago about how many players a GM could handle and a notion that some players have a number of 1, some players are a pain and count as 1.5, 2, or even 3, and a few really great players have a number of zero or even -1 or -2. Sounds like you got rid of the high number folks in your group. 8) |
Interesting. There is probably some truth to that. Some players are more trouble to run that others. It is not always a matter o ood/bad players though, I've seen some guys who are good players, but have a Higher number, and some who are bad players buy have a low number. There are some gamers I have seen who are little more than a zero. They do nothing other than sit there and roll dice. They take no effort to run, but are about as fun to run as the faucet. |
I'm not sure I was very clear about the idea, though I think you get the general jist.
A normal player, pretty fun but not high maintanence is a 1. A high maintenance player, the sort who is always trying to have their character do things, ignores others turns, jumps in all the time, etc. might be a 2, a players who contributes to the group, maybe helps the new player add up his dice and do his MAPs right might be a 0. He is not a boring player, but he is so easy to GM for and helps with others that adding him to a group doesn't add to the burden of running the group. Some players do all of that but in additon are just so good to have in the group, creative ideas, funny, work with the group and the GM, whatever that they might count as a -1. They are just so great it is worth adding them to the group no matter what. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Why would you feel that way? You are not being harsh/cruel. |
A little voice in my head tells me I'll get a DSP if I do it! The look on he guy's face when I cut im off really does remind me o a hurt puppy. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | | I've mostly switched to a "reverse enigizer bunny" method. "He's still dead." |
Sounds like re: Counting Guy, if he's otherwise an asset to the group, just ignore it and, as you say, see what some other player is doing. As you say it's a little annoying, but not a huge deal and it doesn't sound like he can really control the behavior so making a big deal of it isn't productive or particularly nice. |
I just tease him about it from time to time. Sometimes I really do need a total, too. Last week he got into a bad rolling streak and kept missing a STAP.
| Bren wrote: |
I'm not sure I was very clear about the idea, though I think you get the general jist.
A normal player, pretty fun but not high maintanence is a 1. A high maintenance player, the sort who is always trying to have their character do things, ignores others turns, jumps in all the time, etc. might be a 2, a players who contributes to the group, maybe helps the new player add up his dice and do his MAPs right might be a 0. He is not a boring player, but he is so easy to GM for and helps with others that adding him to a group doesn't add to the burden of running the group. Some players do all of that but in additon are just so good to have in the group, creative ideas, funny, work with the group and the GM, whatever that they might count as a -1. They are just so great it is worth adding them to the group no matter what. |
I think I got it, just that low maintenance does not alway equal group asset. |
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | I think I got it, just that low maintenance does not alway equal group asset. |
Yep. And some high maintenance players are fun enough to still be just a 1.  |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Why would you feel that way? You are not being harsh/cruel. |
A little voice in my head tells me I'll get a DSP if I do it! The look on he guy's face when I cut im off really does remind me o a hurt puppy. |
Sounds like you have "carpet" syndrome. Where you let people walk all over you cause you are too scared to hurt their feelings..
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Random Numbers
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Why would you feel that way? You are not being harsh/cruel. |
A little voice in my head tells me I'll get a DSP if I do it! The look on he guy's face when I cut im off really does remind me o a hurt puppy. |
Sounds like you have "carpet" syndrome. Where you let people walk all over you cause you are too scared to hurt their feelings.. |
In SW universe Carpet Syndrome is when you go berserk and rip someone to shreds with your bare hands.
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | | In SW universe Carpet Syndrome is when you go berserk and rip someone to shreds with your bare hands. |
I thought Carpet Syndrome was the tendency of unimaginative Imperial Commanders to try to resolve all their problems with waves of TIE Bombers. 
But seriously, there is a big difference between having some concern for others' feelings and just being a doormat. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:40 am Post subject: |
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My only concern for rolling many dice is that all the dice often even outs and give you average or close to average results most of the times (not counting the wild die).
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="garhkal"] | atgxtg wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Why would you feel that way? You are not being harsh/cruel. |
Sounds like you have "carpet" syndrome. Where you let people walk all over you cause you are too scared to hurt their feelings.. |
I wish my players could see this, they7d either be rolling on the floor or hunting you down! 
I have a rep as being A @tough@ GM. I just don&t see this as a problem, just an annoyance.
If it makes you feel better, said player almost lost his character when the AAT he was in blew up last week. If the damage rolls had gone differently he would have *and should have( gotten killed. 12D and the best I could do was mortally wound him. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | My only concern for rolling many dice is that all the dice often even outs and give you average or close to average results most of the times (not counting the wild die). |
The answer to that is, yes, rolling fewer dice with an add will give you average results. At least if the add is correct. In fact, the results will beeven closer to average than if you roll all the dice. Fewer dice translate into a smaller variance between rolls.
Where you loose out is that you eventually eliminate th possibility of a high skilled character occasionally blowing an easy roll. A character with 8D in blaster can occasionally miss a difficulty 7 shot with a low roll and a @1@ on the wild die. Someone rolling 4d+14 or 5D+11 can't.
Unless you tweak the wild die rules. Either reducing the add on a 1, dropping the add, or allowing 1s to roll over the way sixes do.
The same holds true for the high end. A charsacter with 8D could get a result in the upper 40s even without a 6 on the wild die. But Someone rolling 5D+11 cannot. That reduces the "miracle shot" factor.
So it is a trade off between simplicity and randomness. Persoanlly, I don't mind losing the high and low end results. It is very un-cinematic for Darth Vader to cut his own legs off simply because he rolled all ones. |
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Random Numbers
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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I don't mind rolling loads of dice but I can see that for the GM it might be a hassle. Loads of dice equal loads of fun. I find calculating and judge how many maps you can afford much more bothersome.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Random Numbers wrote: | | In SW universe Carpet Syndrome is when you go berserk and rip someone to shreds with your bare hands. |
I thought Carpet Syndrome was the tendency of unimaginative Imperial Commanders to try to resolve all their problems with waves of TIE Bombers.
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Na.. why waste the ordinance.. Just call in a orbital bombardment!!! 
| Bren wrote: | | But seriously, there is a big difference between having some concern for others' feelings and just being a doormat. |
From the way RN made it seem, he was closer to the latter than the former.
| Quote: | | If it makes you feel better, said player almost lost his character when the AAT he was in blew up last week. If the damage rolls had gone differently he would have *and should have( gotten killed. 12D and the best I could do was mortally wound him. |
One of the con games i was in, someone walked away wounded from 13d of damage (2d+2 str, 1d+1 armor).. Man was he jammy with the wild die and the DM's damage roll sucked big time.
| Quote: | The answer to that is, yes, rolling fewer dice with an add will give you average results. At least if the add is correct. In fact, the results will beeven closer to average than if you roll all the dice. Fewer dice translate into a smaller variance between rolls.
Where you loose out is that you eventually eliminate th possibility of a high skilled character occasionally blowing an easy roll. A character with 8D in blaster can occasionally miss a difficulty 7 shot with a low roll and a @1@ on the wild die. Someone rolling 4d+14 or 5D+11 can't.
Unless you tweak the wild die rules. Either reducing the add on a 1, dropping the add, or allowing 1s to roll over the way sixes do.
The same holds true for the high end. A charsacter with 8D could get a result in the upper 40s even without a 6 on the wild die. But Someone rolling 5D+11 cannot. That reduces the "miracle shot" factor.
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Yup. I have had several instances where either I or a player i Gmed for managed to frak up an easy shot with lots of dice (rolled all 1's, or poss 2s) or where someone with few dice got jammy on the wild die and hit a real high number..
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