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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: Expanded Pickpocket Skill |
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I'm considering folding Pick Pocket into a skill with a broader scope that includes sleight-of-hand tricks and picking simple mechanical locks (more advanced, electronics locks would still be the purview of Security). I'm vacillating between calling it prestidigitation or legerdemain, both terms for a variety of "fast hands" techniques. The skill would cover the following principles of legerdemain, as described by Penn and Teller:
1. Palm - To hold an object in an apparently empty hand.
2. Ditch - To secretly dispose of an unneeded object.
3. Steal - To secretly obtain a needed object. (Pickpocket)
4. Load - To secretly move an object to where it is needed.
5. Simulation - To give the impression that something has happened that has not.
6. Misdirection - To lead attention away from a secret move.
7. Switch - To secretly exchange one object for another.
The skill would also cover the ability to pick basic non-electronic locks using simple or improvised tools.
Thoughts?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:49 am Post subject: |
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Pick pockets already allows the above 1-6. Since its write up says it can be used for simple sleight of hand tricks.
As to lockpicking, that is the pervue of security.
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Lancil
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Pick pockets already allows the above 1-6. Since its write up says it can be used for simple sleight of hand tricks. |
I agree with this.
But I also agree that actually picking a lock takes a completely different ability than bypassing electronic security. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Lancil wrote: | I agree with this.
But I also agree that actually picking a lock takes a completely different ability than bypassing electronic security. |
That was my thought, that picking a lock by feel with a pick or opening a window with a credit card had a lot more to do with hand-eye coordination than knowing which wire to cut or which code to enter.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: |
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From my reading of security, its not just electronic locks, but all types of llocks.
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Lancil
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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You are correct garhkal, by the RAW. But I've always believed that it was wrong. Just like computer program/repair being the same skill. I can do pretty much what ever I want with the physical body of a computer, but I can't write even the simplest of programs. Some times the RAW is just not quite right.  |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Lancil wrote: | | You are correct garhkal, by the RAW. But I've always believed that it was wrong. Just like computer program/repair being the same skill. I can do pretty much what ever I want with the physical body of a computer, but I can't write even the simplest of programs. Some times the RAW is just not quite right. |
How about a compromise? Basic lockpicking to gain entry to a locked facility would fall under the Security skill, but escape artist tricks like using improvised or basic tools to escape a pair of cuffs or similar bindings would fall under a sleight-of-hand skill, lumped in with various contortionist techniques and such.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed... though i could have sworn i saw an excapist skill for those cuffs/contortions...
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Agreed... though i could have sworn i saw an excapist skill for those cuffs/contortions... |
I've seen nothing like that in the RAW, apart from the Contort / Escape ability.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Lancil wrote: | | You are correct garhkal, by the RAW. But I've always believed that it was wrong. Just like computer program/repair being the same skill. I can do pretty much what ever I want with the physical body of a computer, but I can't write even the simplest of programs. Some times the RAW is just not quite right. |
But technical skills also include repair skills, which includes welding, electrics and other manual mechanical stuff. These are not Dex skills just because you do stuff with your hands.
Also, picking locks require sleigh of hand, but does that include knowledge of locks? I doesent matter how fast hands you have or how dextrous you are, if you dont know what to do with those hands youre still stuck outside that door. Id say that security still is the best skill for this as the major component here is technical knowledge of locks.
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Lancil
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| I guess it just depends on how "deep" you are wanting to go with your game. All the skills in d6 are fairly generalized. Like breaking security down to electronic lock bypassing and manual lock picking. And don't forget breaking into a secure computer uses security plus a computer operation roll. I mean if you wanted you could break every skill down to smaller individual skills. It is just up to an individual GM. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Lancil wrote: | | I guess it just depends on how "deep" you are wanting to go with your game. All the skills in d6 are fairly generalized. Like breaking security down to electronic lock bypassing and manual lock picking. And don't forget breaking into a secure computer uses security plus a computer operation roll. I mean if you wanted you could break every skill down to smaller individual skills. It is just up to an individual GM. |
Which is why I like Comp prog/rep as is. I have even changed it back to Droid prog/rep. and also Starship Piloting.
General skills all the way! 
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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I know when going through various trainings in the mil for pc systems, such as the JMCIS messinging system, we learn both the hardware and software side. Same for the A+ course, microsoft professional (MCSE).. So i can see why Com prog and repair are together. Droid prog/repair, i could see pairing up using the same logic. For security though, i do believe there is at least some logic to seperating the mechanical lock picking from the electric ones, via security.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a thought. For the various Technical skills, should there be modifiers applied for the level of tools used? I read somewhere (Platt's Smuggler's Guide I think) that different pieces of starship security devices had set difficulties to break, but IMO, that would vary based on the tools the character used. A starship thief who didn't have his specialized tools on him might be able to, in a pinch, use basic or improvised tools to perform the job at higher difficulty.
By the same token, you could augment the difficulty to break certain security systems by making the Difficulty level based solely on the use of a specialized and exotic tool needed to break in. The character wouldn't be able to even attempt the roll without acquiring the needed piece of equipment, which could be a whole 'nother adventure itself.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I know when going through various trainings in the mil for pc systems, such as the JMCIS messinging system, we learn both the hardware and software side. Same for the A+ course, microsoft professional (MCSE).. So i can see why Com prog and repair are together. Droid prog/repair, i could see pairing up using the same logic. For security though, i do believe there is at least some logic to seperating the mechanical lock picking from the electric ones, via security. |
Ill have to admit that my motivation for merging some skills are just that I want characters to have broad areas of expertise. I focus on the Space Opera part before realism. A techie has learned both to repair and program a droid even though they perhaps should be different skills from a 'realistic' perspective.
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