| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4834
|
 Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:43 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| garhkal wrote: |
We have read in several novels where someone shoots down an incomming missile.. |
Does it count for anything if I did it in the original X-Wing game once? (Maybe it was TIE-Fighter... but still).
_________________
__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: |
Well, just look at the stats for X-wings etc. |
But that might be a case of the RPG doing things rather than a reflection on the Star Wars Universe. For example the standard TIE fight has 'nerfed Maneuverability, and probably Hull.
On screen the TIEs are quirte maneuverable, and X-Wings don't seem to be much more durable, shields or otherwise.
in Star Warriors (also put out by West End), a game that didn7t have to protect the PCs, TIEs hold up much better against X-Wings. TIES are fast and maneuverable, they just don't stop very well.
]My point is, not everything we see in game stats is supported by what we see on screen. This thread, among others, touches upon some things where the game stats and the on screen performances differ.
I think that if we are going to go to the trouble to houserule stuf, we might ant to be careful about any assumptions. I7m not sold that X-Wings are supposed to soak a few hits, or that TIES are supposed to go up in a fireball. To me that seems more of a function of who is lying the fighter, than one of make and model number.
Most of the X and Y-Wings that did the Death Star Trench Run went up in one "burst" of laser fire. And Vader'S X1 TIE fighter survived a hit from the Millennium Falcon's 6D lturbolaser!
So linking the damage to pilot skill might actually be turer to the films than adjusting to Hull codes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bren wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | You think walkers should be bigger scale than fighters? |
At the very least, they should be equal. IMO, a walker is comparable to a space transport, and without the need for the sublight and hyperdrives or the specialized environmental gear needed for space flight, a walker should be able to tack on even more armor than the average assault shuttle. |
For an AT-AT equal does kind of make sense. No way for an AT-ST though. Given how much speeder scale overlaps character scale, it might actually make more sense to have
character scale +0D (and speeder bikes should be character scale)
speeder scale +3D (land speeders, repulsor tanks, AT-STs)
AT-AT/SF scale +6D (AT-ATs, X-wings, YT-1300s) |
I don7t kinow if this is so much a scale problem as it is a problem with the stats for the AT-AT.
I've been seriously considering using D6 space scaling rules. Rather than having several scales, each vehicle has a scale number, a fixed value that is used for scaling, just like the die codes in Star Wars D6.
One of the perks of that method is that you can eaily tweak a vehicle's performance by adjusting It7s scale value. Somebody could up the scale for a walker or tank without altering the scale for a host of other vehicles.
That way you could have AT-STs weaker than Starfighters, and AT-ATs tougher than Starfighters. It would seem logical consider how AT-ATs were walking fortresses in the films. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| atgxtg wrote: | And Vader'S X1 TIE fighter survived a hit from the Millennium Falcon's 6D lturbolaser!
So linking the damage to pilot skill might actually be turer to the films than adjusting to Hull codes. |
IIR Vader wasn't hit by the Falcon, his wingmate was which caused Vader to spin out.
You make a good point on damage. One problem in Star Wars is that if the ship goes up, typically according to the RAW so do the characters, where as we know from upteen Holywood and other films that the hero usually gets to bail out just before his ship goes up in flames. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| atgxtg wrote: | I've been seriously considering using D6 space scaling rules. Rather than having several scales, each vehicle has a scale number, a fixed value that is used for scaling, just like the die codes in Star Wars D6.
One of the perks of that method is that you can eaily tweak a vehicle's performance by adjusting It7s scale value. |
I may have to relook at D6 space for vehicles. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| atgxtg wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: |
Well, just look at the stats for X-wings etc. |
But that might be a case of the RPG doing things rather than a reflection on the Star Wars Universe. For example the standard TIE fight has 'nerfed Maneuverability, and probably Hull.
On screen the TIEs are quirte maneuverable, and X-Wings don't seem to be much more durable, shields or otherwise.
in Star Warriors (also put out by West End), a game that didn7t have to protect the PCs, TIEs hold up much better against X-Wings. TIES are fast and maneuverable, they just don't stop very well.
]My point is, not everything we see in game stats is supported by what we see on screen. This thread, among others, touches upon some things where the game stats and the on screen performances differ.
I think that if we are going to go to the trouble to houserule stuf, we might ant to be careful about any assumptions. I7m not sold that X-Wings are supposed to soak a few hits, or that TIES are supposed to go up in a fireball. To me that seems more of a function of who is lying the fighter, than one of make and model number.
Most of the X and Y-Wings that did the Death Star Trench Run went up in one "burst" of laser fire. And Vader'S X1 TIE fighter survived a hit from the Millennium Falcon's 6D lturbolaser!
So linking the damage to pilot skill might actually be turer to the films than adjusting to Hull codes. |
I was discussing why fighters didnt have external weapons, like missiles on the wings. One reason, from the RAW pov, is that ships are made to take a few hits.
Sure, they dont in the movies, but I dont see many people play with 2D Body X-wings with +1 pip shields anyways.
This 'this is how it is in the movies' idea only go so far. Movies are movie, and RPGs are RPGs. The RPG is based on the universe portrayed in the movies, but not on the little details.
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cheshire wrote: | | garhkal wrote: |
We have read in several novels where someone shoots down an incomming missile.. |
Does it count for anything if I did it in the original X-Wing game once? (Maybe it was TIE-Fighter... but still). |
I would say yes. If it was possible in the computer game, then it's not a huge leap to assume that it's possible in the RPG (unless you're talking about the fireballs from the old stand-up arcade game). I still think it should be sufficiently difficult that only elite pilots and Jedi Knights (or starships with specialized weapon systems) should be capable of.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| atgxtg wrote: | I don7t kinow if this is so much a scale problem as it is a problem with the stats for the AT-AT.
I've been seriously considering using D6 space scaling rules. Rather than having several scales, each vehicle has a scale number, a fixed value that is used for scaling, just like the die codes in Star Wars D6. |
There are a lot of things that I like about D6 Space, but IMO, this would be a tough conversion. After all, you would have to come up with a specific scale number for each and every craft, vehicle and weapon in the game. Rather than go through and calculate numbers for all of those stats, I'd rather tweak the existing scale system so that it is a better fit.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bren wrote: | | IIR Vader wasn't hit by the Falcon, his wingmate was which caused Vader to spin out. |
Correct. Han took out one of Vader's wingmen, causing the other to panic and try to evade, which resulted in him knocking Vader out of control just before the wingman crashed into the trench wall.
| Quote: | | You make a good point on damage. One problem in Star Wars is that if the ship goes up, typically according to the RAW so do the characters, where as we know from upteen Holywood and other films that the hero usually gets to bail out just before his ship goes up in flames. |
It's a variable-efficacy ejection seat, with the functioning of the seat directly related to the importance of the character to the plot.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bren wrote: | For an AT-AT equal does kind of make sense. No way for an AT-ST though. Given how much speeder scale overlaps character scale, it might actually make more sense to have
character scale +0D (and speeder bikes should be character scale)
speeder scale +3D (land speeders, repulsor tanks, AT-STs)
AT-AT/SF scale +6D (AT-ATs, X-wings, YT-1300s) |
I went for a +4D modifier between scales, but that's ultimately just going to be personal preference.
I'm on the fence about the AT-AT. IMO, it seems roughly comparable size-wise to a basic TIE fighter, and if TIEs are in the same scale as AT-ATs (even with only a 2D Hull), then an AT-ST could conceivably be in the same bracket.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| crmcneill wrote: | | I'm on the fence about the AT-AT. IMO, it seems roughly comparable size-wise to a basic TIE fighter, and if TIEs are in the same scale as AT-ATs (even with only a 2D Hull), then an AT-ST could conceivably be in the same bracket. |
They don't seem the same size to me.
AT-AT
length 20.0 meters
height 22.5 meters
TIE
length 6.3 meters
seems to be about the same in all three dimensions, but much of the volume is empty space between the panels.
AT-ST
Height 8.3 meters
The TIE actually seems closer in volume/size to the AT-ST not the AT-AT. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bren wrote: | | The TIE actually seems closer in volume/size to the AT-ST not the AT-AT. |
I misspoke. I meant AT-ST, not AT-AT, meaning that I would keep AT-STs at Walker-Scale, but keep their Body Strength at 3D.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah those A and S keys are right next to each other. 
Darn you Christopher Latham Sholes!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cheshire wrote: | | garhkal wrote: |
We have read in several novels where someone shoots down an incomming missile.. |
Does it count for anything if I did it in the original X-Wing game once? (Maybe it was TIE-Fighter... but still). |
I do it all the time..
| Quote: | | You make a good point on damage. One problem in Star Wars is that if the ship goes up, typically according to the RAW so do the characters, where as we know from upteen Holywood and other films that the hero usually gets to bail out just before his ship goes up in flames. |
In atmosphere with edjection seats maybe. BUT in space without them..
For fighters, they do come with them (see x wing novels).. but i know plenty of pc pilots who disabled them cause they can be inadvertently set off...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| crmcneill wrote: |
There are a lot of things that I like about D6 Space, but IMO, this would be a tough conversion. After all, you would have to come up with a specific scale number for each and every craft, vehicle and weapon in the game. Rather than go through and calculate numbers for all of those stats, I'd rather tweak the existing scale system so that it is a better fit. |
It wouldn7t be as tough as you might believe. When I was playing around with a vehicle construction system last year I was wable to reverse engineer the scale table from D6 Space, so it would be possible to get a @ballpark@ scale from just the vehicle&s length. From there a specfic value could be tweked up or down a little *or a lot( to fix those vehicles that seem to be off.
The whole thing is a log function, so the conversion was really easy, and could be done with a small table. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
