The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Alternate Space Combat Rules
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> House Rules -> Alternate Space Combat Rules Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:28 pm    Post subject: Alternate Space Combat Rules Reply with quote

Although I like the foundation of Space combat by D6 rules, I have always had some issues with how they worked the rules for some weapons. As such, I'm starting this thread to post some optional rules. Here's the first one:

Alternate Ion Cannon vs. Shield Rules

I’ve always felt the RAW for Ion Cannon was a bit of a stretch, especially based off a single canon appearance of said weapon. In the novels, ion cannon appeared to function differently, in that they appeared to affect shields as well as a ship’s electronics. As such, I’ve created the following theory:

Ion cannon affect a ship’s shields first, and do not affect their target’s electronic systems until after the shield is knocked out. When firing at shields, if the damage rolled by the ion cannon is one step or more above the target's maximum shield dice, the shields are overloaded, and temporarily go off-line to recharge (Shields recharge at a rate of 1D per round). Subsequent shots from the ion cannon will disrupt the target vessel's electronic systems. Vessels with backup shields, like the Mon Cal MC80 Star Cruiser, may bring up backup shields to replace the lost shield. (Example: A Mon Cal Cruiser with 3D of Shields takes ion cannon damage for a penalty of -4D. The ship’s shields go down completely as the generators struggle to recharge. In the next round, the penalty is reduced by 1D, which leaves the Cruiser with 0D in shields. In the round after that, the penalty is reduced by a further 1D, which gives the Cruiser 1D in shields. Naturally, rather than wait for shields to recharge, the ship’s captain will bring backup shields on line and allow the overloaded shield generator to recharge).

Ion Cannon vs. Shields Damage Table:
1-6 = -1D shields
7-12 = -2D shields
13-18 = -3D shields
19-24 = -4D shields
25-30 = -5D shields
and so on (an additional -1D penalty to shields per each step of 6)

Once the target’s shields have been brought down, subsequent ion cannon barrages go directly against the ship’s Hull, and inflict a Shields Blown / Controls Ionized result of varying severity. Apply the penalty indicated by the damage chart to the target vessel's maneuverability, shields, sensors, fire control and weapon damage (the ship's Speed code is reduced by the number in parentheses).

Shield generators are at their most vulnerable to ion cannons during this time, as they are usually overloaded and trying to recharge from whatever blast took them down in first place, so while hull damage from ion cannon is usually temporary, shield dice lost from hull damage counts as a Shields Blown result (i.e. permanent until repaired). Backup shields are exempt from this rule, but are still penalized by the Controls Ionized effect.

All other dice penalties reduce at a rate of one step (-1D / -1) per round, although there may be additional penalties tacked on the following round from more ion cannon barrages. If any of the ship’s systems receive an ionization penalty that reduces its base dice to 0D, the controls are Frozen. If any of the ship’s systems receive an ionization penalty two steps above their base dice value, the system burns out, and must be repaired before it can be used again. (Example: If a ship with 2D maneuverability takes ion damage of -4D, its maneuvering thrusters burn out and must be repaired before they can be used again).

Ion Cannon vs. Hull Damage Table:
Damage inflicted is always a Shields Blown / Controls Ionized result of varying severity
0-3 = -1D (-1)
4-6 = -2D (-2)
7-9 = -3D (-3)
10-12 = -4D (-4)
13-15 = -5D (-5)
16+ = -6D (-6)


For ease of application, when combining ion cannon barrages with other weapons, such as turbolasers, resolve the turbolaser attack first. Whatever penalties are inflicted by the ion cannon will come into play in the next round.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Esoomian
High Admiral
High Admiral


Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So even if a ship has +2 points in shields and an ion cannon does -10D shield damage in that round all it does is take the ships shields down?

I can see wanting shields to make a difference to how effective ion cannons are but a good roll should also take down ships electronics even if it had to beat the shields in the same round.
_________________
Don't waste money on expensive binoculars.

Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:
So even if a ship has +2 points in shields and an ion cannon does -10D shield damage in that round all it does is take the ships shields down?

I can see wanting shields to make a difference to how effective ion cannons are but a good roll should also take down ships electronics even if it had to beat the shields in the same round.


I had the same thought, and I ultimately decided to simplify it by saying that, when used against shields, all the ion energy is expended at the shield's perimeter. It seemed simpler. Of course, I am open to suggestions as to how to make it work.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:
So even if a ship has +2 points in shields and an ion cannon does -10D shield damage in that round all it does is take the ships shields down?

I can see wanting shields to make a difference to how effective ion cannons are but a good roll should also take down ships electronics even if it had to beat the shields in the same round.


In my games, each 1D of shields protect as 1 pip against Ion cannons. So a 2D shield gives a +2 bonus to the resistance roll vs damage.
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe something like:

If the ion barrage reduces the ship's shields below 0D, the negative value of the penalty is applied as a Shields Blown / Controls Ionized result.

Example: A Mon Cal Cruiser with 3D of Shields takes ion cannon damage for a penalty of -4D. The ship’s shields go down completely as the generators struggle to recharge. The ship suffers 1D of shields blown, and all other controls are at -1D for the remainder of the round. The cruiser's remaining 2D of shields may recharge as normal, but the 1D of blown shields must be repaired before it can be reused. The captain can opt to bring up 1D of backup shields in its place, but Capital Ship Shields is rolled at a -1D penalty to bring it up.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Esoomian
High Admiral
High Admiral


Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd still probably use RAW myself but if that's not for you then I can see two other ways of doing things.

The damage from ion cannons doesn't ignore shields any more so shields may prevent a complete shutdown of the ships electrics.

Shields are more effective against ion cannons so their soak is doubled vs. ion cannons making it ideal to use regular weapons to take out shields and then switch to ion cannons to disable the ship itself.
_________________
Don't waste money on expensive binoculars.

Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Massed Warhead Attacks vs. Shields:

In the Black Fleet Crisis, a new ordnance weapon was introduced: the T-33 plasma torpedo. It was specifically designed to bring down Capital-Scale shields by detonating just short of the shield perimeter, overloading the shield with an energy barrage instead of trying to punch through it.

I've seen some homebrew stats for the T-33, but it got me thinking; the idea had to come from somewhere, and with the Rebel Alliance, necessity was always the mother of invention. My theory on concussion missiles and proton torpedoes is that the warhead could be tailored to fit the target. Fusing could be proximity, contact or delayed, and the warhead itself could discharge its energy in an omni-directional pulse, a cone-shaped blast or a pinpoint beam, depending on what was needed for maximum effect against a target.

My theory here is that the Alliance developed a fusing option for use by starfighters against capital ship shields. When this option is selected, the damage of the warhead is reduced by 3D, but it is solely focused against the target vessel's shields + scale modifier, not the combination of hull + shields + 2 x scale modifier.

By current rules, a Star Destroyer with a Hull of 7D and Shields of 3D under attack by a starfighter squadron gets to add the 6D Scale modifier to the Hull and the shields, for a combined total of 23D to resist damage, which can be a very daunting prospect for even the best starfighter pilots.

Lets say a Star Destroyer is under attack by a squadron of B-Wings, with A-Wing or X-Wing escort to keep the ISD's TIE fighters off their backs. The B-Wing squadron commander knows he doesn't have the time to stay and hammer at the ISD's shields, so he orders his squadron to prepare a salvo of proton torpedoes for a shield-buster attack. We'll assume he passes the command roll, so his squadrons can combine their shots into one massed barrage.

Now, the squadron is firing a total of 24 proton torpedoes, with a base damage of 9D. Subtracting 3D for the shieldbuster shot for 6D, and working out the combined actions bonus results in an additional +8D, so the squadron of B-Wings will be inflicting a combined total of 14D against 9D of shields.

To determine the damage, I would probably use the Ion Cannon Damage vs. Shields chart that I used above, without the residual ion effects punching through to the ship on shield failure, as this is a warhead attack, and all of its energy was expended at the shields themselves, not at an attempt to get through the shields and the hull. Using that chart and rolling 14D vs. 9D would result in an average total of around 49 over 32, for a total of 17 damage. Using the same rules defined in the Ion Cannon post means that the Star Destroyers 3D shields in that arc have been knocked down to 0D, leaving the hull open to follow-up barrages from the B-Wings. However, since the shields recharge at a rate of 1D per round, they need to get their hits in quick, because as soon as the Star Destroyer gets even 1D of shield recharged, the B-Wings have to start all over again.

P.S. When should I apply the recharge modifier for shields? Should it be at the beginning of the defender's action the next round? Or should it wait until the end of the next round entirely?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:

Ion cannon affect a ship’s shields first, and do not affect their target’s electronic systems until after the shield is knocked out.


then why would anyone bother with ion cannons over blasters/lasers/turbos:? if they have to knock down shields first? Plus you wuold have to do some severe pumping up of ions damge to compensate. AS is a heavy ion cannon does 4d+2 damage, where as most LIGHT laser cannons do 4d... Not that big a diff in damage for something that is supposed to be HEAVY!

ZzaphodD wrote:
I'd still probably use RAW myself but if that's not for you then I can see two other ways of doing things.

The damage from ion cannons doesn't ignore shields any more so shields may prevent a complete shutdown of the ships electrics.



Then no one would ever take ions...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
then why would anyone bother with ion cannons over blasters/lasers/turbos:? if they have to knock down shields first? Plus you wuold have to do some severe pumping up of ions damge to compensate. AS is a heavy ion cannon does 4d+2 damage, where as most LIGHT laser cannons do 4d... Not that big a diff in damage for something that is supposed to be HEAVY!


Well, an alternate method would be to chance the wording on the Ion Cannon Damage chart, so that it inflicts Controls Ionized and Shields Blown results. That way, it would basically use the same technique as in the RAW; the Ion Cannon would ignore the shields as usual, but they would be the first systems to go down. I never liked the idea that shields didn't stop ion cannons, so a rule that ion cannons are highly disruptive to shields makes more sense to me.

Quote:
Then no one would ever take ions...


People would still bother with ion cannon because they give a capital ship a nice one-two punch. The ion cannon strip the outer defenses and shake the ship up a bit while the turbolasers go for the knockout. Plus, ion cannons still give the ship the ability to disable targets instead of just vaporizing them.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Esoomian
High Admiral
High Admiral


Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't B-Wings have ion cannons which (using RAW) they could use to avoid the shields and the 2nd set of scale modifiers? That'd mean they only had to beat 13D with their combined fire ion blast to actually do something to the Star Destroyer.

Of all the ideas discussed I like ZzaphodD's +1 soak for every D of shields idea best.
_________________
Don't waste money on expensive binoculars.

Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:
Don't B-Wings have ion cannons which (using RAW) they could use to avoid the shields and the 2nd set of scale modifiers? That'd mean they only had to beat 13D with their combined fire ion blast to actually do something to the Star Destroyer.

Of all the ideas discussed I like ZzaphodD's +1 soak for every D of shields idea best.


I'm leaning that direction myself, combined with modifying the existing Ion Cannon rules so that they inflict Shields Blown / Controls Ionized results instead of just Controls Ionized.

I am liking the idea of having shields be able to recharge at a rate of 1D per round, rather than just getting completely blown out. The canon really only deals with shields as a plot device, and I never really liked WEG's version. The novels and the video games all use shields differently from the RAW, providing all-around cover that can be shifted between arcs (to varying degrees) as opposed to, say, the 1D of shields on an X-Wing that breaks down to three pips total to split between 4 fire arcs, according to WEG
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am liking the idea of having shields be able to recharge at a rate of 1D per round, rather than just getting completely blown out.


I think that having shield recharge should be a repair roll, that way engineering crews on larger vessels actually have some work to do to keep the ship tip top even during a fight. Having to make adjustments to the shield generators or repair blown fuses or whatever to get the shields back up to full strength.

Even on a freighter or space transport, if you have a techie, it makes sense. That way he feels like he's contributing something to the group in space combat other than taking up oxygen, or having to be a gunner to help in the fight.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Esoomian
High Admiral
High Admiral


Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
I'm leaning that direction myself, combined with modifying the existing Ion Cannon rules so that they inflict Shields Blown / Controls Ionized results instead of just Controls Ionized.


So the ion cannons would still ionize the controls and make ships dead in the water (so to speak) right?

crmcneill wrote:
I am liking the idea of having shields be able to recharge at a rate of 1D per round, rather than just getting completely blown out. The canon really only deals with shields as a plot device, and I never really liked WEG's version. The novels and the video games all use shields differently from the RAW, providing all-around cover that can be shifted between arcs (to varying degrees) as opposed to, say, the 1D of shields on an X-Wing that breaks down to three pips total to split between 4 fire arcs, according to WEG


You'd have some pretty big balance issues to address if shields could regenerate. I like the mechanic in the video games but in the RPG I like the idea of the tech character frantically routing power around and trying to get something up and running rather than just a regenerating mechanic. It also makes ships with backup shields that much more formidible.

[Edit] D*mn you ninja'd me Redstar. [/edit]
_________________
Don't waste money on expensive binoculars.

Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I think that having shield recharge should be a repair roll, that way engineering crews on larger vessels actually have some work to do to keep the ship tip top even during a fight. Having to make adjustments to the shield generators or repair blown fuses or whatever to get the shields back up to full strength.

Even on a freighter or space transport, if you have a techie, it makes sense. That way he feels like he's contributing something to the group in space combat other than taking up oxygen, or having to be a gunner to help in the fight.


I can agree with that. Even if all the character is doing is sitting at a console adjusting knobs, he's contributing by helping keep the shields up.

This would be a distinction between civilian and military vessels, I think, in that starfighters would have advanced automated systems designed to handle shield recharge automatically, while space transports and the like wouldn't be designed for such combat-intensive needs, and would require manual control.

I'd also like to come up with rules for transferring power from one shield arc to another that combines with the idea of shields having uniform coverage and being able to recharge. I looked at the Optional Rules for Transferring power in The Far Orbit Project, but I'd prefer something a little less complex.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Esoomian
High Admiral
High Admiral


Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
This would be a distinction between civilian and military vessels, I think, in that starfighters would have advanced automated systems designed to handle shield recharge automatically, while space transports and the like wouldn't be designed for such combat-intensive needs, and would require manual control.


Isn't that what the astromech is doing in an X-Wing?
_________________
Don't waste money on expensive binoculars.

Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> House Rules All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16  Next
Page 1 of 16

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0