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CRMcNeill
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 Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:39 am Post subject: Magnify Senses & Shift Senses |
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I'm a little perplexed when I look at the description for Magnify Senses. It says it magnifies the senses, yet it gives no rules for doing so. You get a more tangible result by combining Enhance Attribute with Perception. Should Magnify Senses and Shift Senses offer something special above and beyond a boost in dice? If so, what?
The first thing that pops into my mind for Magnify Senses is a range modifier. Basically, on normal Perception, you roll at normal duty inside of, say, 10-20 meters. For every 10-20 meters beyond that (it would be a constant number), the Difficulty for Perception rolls would go up a level. Enhance Attribute would increase the dice level, but Magnify Senses would increase the range, based on how well you rolled, by either increasing the distance covered per "range bracket", or by providing reverse modifiers against the range bracket (i.e. depending on how well you rolled, you may subtract a given number of difficulty levels from the base distance).
Still not sure about Shift Senses, but if MFTAS optics in Stormtrooper helmets have stats and dice bonuses, maybe this should too?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Magnify Senses & Shift Senses |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I'm a little perplexed when I look at the description for Magnify Senses. It says it magnifies the senses, yet it gives no rules for doing so. |
We just treat it as a magnification of senses e.g. you see far away like you had macrobinoculars, or you see in low light as if you had a starlight scope, or you see tiny things like you had a magnifying glass or microscope, or you have super hearing - think Six Million Dollar Man/Woman for effect. I believe some players even make the boop...boop...boop...boop...boop sound. 
No specific dice adds are required. You just get to use your search or perception when you wouldn't otherwise be able to.
Shift senses would let you see in a visual range you couldn't normally see or hear low frequency or radio waves or some such. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Magnify Senses & Shift Senses |
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| Bren wrote: | | We just treat it as a magnification of senses e.g. you see far away like you had macrobinoculars, or you see in low light as if you had a starlight scope, or you see tiny things like you had a magnifying glass or microscope, or you have super hearing - think Six Million Dollar Man/Woman for effect. I believe some players even make the boop...boop...boop...boop...boop sound. |
Sounds funny, but also sounds like it could get a little annoying before too long. I played D&D with a GM once who actually docked you experience points if you quoted anything from Monty Python & The Holy Grail, or from the Dead Alewives' Dungeons & Dragons sketch. It wasn't that he didn't like either one; it was just that he had heard them so many times that it wasn't funny any more.
| Quote: | No specific dice adds are required. You just get to use your search or perception when you wouldn't otherwise be able to.
Shift senses would let you see in a visual range you couldn't normally see or hear low frequency or radio waves or some such. |
But there are no rules in the RAW to describe what the actual limits of Search or Perception are. The closest the RAW gets is in the description of macrobinoculars, where it provides a Perception bonus at ranges greater than 100 meters (Does that mean that objects at 99 meters are too blurry?) I like to have an actual rule in front of me that I can point to or quote, or fudge a little in the interests of the story. To me, having an ability or a skill that is defined in general terms and provides almost no guidelines as to how said ability works within the rules is less than useless.
As for Shift Senses, you aren't telling me anything I didn't read in the description before I started this thread.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Rerun941
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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There is a Star Wars game that details out every possible use of every Force power in grand detail, it's called SWd20 and/or SW-Saga.
There's a reason the Rancorpit is dedicated to SWd6.
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Han - "That bad, huh?" |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Rerun941 wrote: | There is a Star Wars game that details out every possible use of every Force power in grand detail, it's called SWd20 and/or SW-Saga.
There's a reason the Rancorpit is dedicated to SWd6. |
And I enjoy aspects of both, but I prefer the D6 method overall. No need to get snippy. This is, after all, a forum where all ideas can be discussed, not just the ones with which you happen to agree (coughCANONcough, coughPREQUELScough).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Rerun941
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Rerun941 wrote: | There is a Star Wars game that details out every possible use of every Force power in grand detail, it's called SWd20 and/or SW-Saga.
There's a reason the Rancorpit is dedicated to SWd6. |
And I enjoy aspects of both, but I prefer the D6 method overall. No need to get snippy. This is, after all, a forum where all ideas can be discussed, not just the ones with which you happen to agree (coughCANONcough, coughPREQUELScough). |
The funny thing is... the D6 method is providing RAW that are more like guidelines and don't necessarily provide a lot of specifics.
As far as discussing ideas... I think you need to need to re-read your own forum sig.
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Han - "That bad, huh?" |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Rerun941 wrote: | | The funny thing is... the D6 method is providing RAW that are more like guidelines and don't necessarily provide a lot of specifics. |
Well, speaking for myself, I like rules with a lot of specifics, and I also prefer the D6 mechanic over D20, so there is nothing written down anywhere that says that I can't write up optional rules for my own personal use, or that I can't submit said optional rules to my peers for their perusal, advice, and possible incorporation into their own games, if they so choose.
| Quote: | | As far as discussing ideas... I think you need to need to re-read your own forum sig. |
My sig is a combination of two little things called sarcasm and freedom of speech. Do they not allow those in upstate New York any more?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Rerun941
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Well, speaking for myself, I like rules with a lot of specifics, and I also prefer the D6 mechanic over D20, so there is nothing written down anywhere that says that I can't write up optional rules for my own personal use, or that I can't submit said optional rules to my peers for their perusal, advice, and possible incorporation into their own games, if they so choose. |
And yet, when Bren provided you some help, you proceeded to belittle his gaming group's style and ignore his assistance.
| crmcneill wrote: | | My sig is a combination of two little things called sarcasm and freedom of speech. Do they not allow those in upstate New York any more? |
Only a fool thinks that a verbal cue like sarcasm translates into a non-verbal medium without some kind of visual indicator. Oh sorry, did I say "fool"? Yes, I did... God bless the 1st Amendment.
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Han - "That bad, huh?" |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Rerun941 wrote: | | And yet, when Bren provided you some help, you proceeded to belittle his gaming group's style and ignore his assistance. |
I thing Bren and I have more than established between each other that we have vastly differing gaming styles, as well as preferences for our gaming experience, as is our right. My read on him, based on his writing style in his posts, indicates to me that he is intelligent and well-educated, and that our disagreements are almost entirely over differing styles of gameplay. I'm sure he is more than capable of defending himself if he chooses, so if you are looking for an excuse to pick a fight with me, at least try not to be so obvious about it.
That being said, my initial post stated that I had issues with the RAW with regards to Magnify Senses and Shift Senses. This is because I prefer a gaming system where there are rules and parameters, if only to offer guidelines to GMs so that they aren't pulling random numbers out of the air that turn out to be unrealistic after the fact.
Bren's response, while technically accurate, was of little use to me because he was essentially describing the RAW to me. I own the book, and I can read the RAW whenever I want. I am going to go out on a limb and assume that, with what I have seen of Bren's description of his roleplaying style and of his roleplaying group, he is used to a much more open, flexible, "freestyle" game than I am (Bren, feel free to correct me on this). General power descriptions that provide guidelines for usage as opposed to actual rules are much more in keeping with that style of gameplay, as a simple success or failure on a roll provides a way for the GM to simply throw in more information. However, as someone who likes detail in his descriptions, this is exactly my problem.
The reason I started this thread was because I'm looking for alternatives to a rule that I don't entirely like simply because it is too open-ended. I do not need to get told to go back and use the RAW, because the RAW is what I have a problem with: a vaguely worded, open-ended statement that could easily be replaced by Enhance Attribute. I'm looking for alternatives to the RAW. Ultimately, if I can't find an alternate rule that I like, I would probably revert back to using the RAW, but not without exploring my options first.
| Quote: | | Only a fool thinks that a verbal cue like sarcasm translates into a non-verbal medium without some kind of visual indicator. Oh sorry, did I say "fool"? Yes, I did... God bless the 1st Amendment. |
As a regular reader of the editorial page in my local paper, I can assure you that sarcasm in a non-verbal medium is more than apparent to those with the discernment to identify it. As to the rest, I would remind you that argumentum ad hominem (such as name calling) is nothing more than a logical fallacy, and an oblique indicator of serious flaws in one's own argument.
That being said, feel free to exercise your 1st. Amendment rights and call me whatever names you wish, as opposed to offering a valid logical discussion. I'll let you know if I ever start to care what you think of me.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Rerun941
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Congratulations, crmcneill. You win.
Crmcneill is really smart.
Crmcneill is really smart.
I'll let you figure out which one of those statements is sarcasm. 
PS - Now I know why Random Numbers quit posting and left.
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Luke - "Same as always."
Han - "That bad, huh?" |
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Rerun941 wrote: | There is a Star Wars game that details out every possible use of every Force power in grand detail, it's called SWd20 and/or SW-Saga.
There's a reason the Rancorpit is dedicated to SWd6. |
So true, remember the D6 Star Wars rule of thumb!
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Here. I'll quote you the sarcastic part:
| Rerun941 wrote: | Congratulations, crmcneill. You win.
Crmcneill is really smart.
Crmcneill is really smart.
I'll let you figure out which one of those statements is sarcasm.
PS - Now I know why Random Numbers quit posting and left. |
Did Random Numbers tell you that was why he left, or is that another assumption on your part?
This is a forum for expressing one's ideas and opinions, and while I respect everyone's right to hold their own opinions, that doesn't mean that I won't defend my own just to spare other people's feelings. If the moderators have a problem with how I behave on this list, I'm sure they'll let me know, and I will adjust my behavior accordingly. That being said, I'm going to guess that they frown more on off-topic personal attacks than they do on sarcastic remarks made pursuant to the thread's actual topic.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Rerun941
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Meanwhile, back on topic...
If the PC makes his Magnify Senses or Shift Sense roll, he gets to add his Sense dice to whatever appropriate Search/Perception roll for the duration of the power.
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Luke - "Same as always."
Han - "That bad, huh?" |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Did Random Numbers tell you that was why he left, or is that another assumption on your part? |
Ill ask him next time we talk, or at least next time were gaming..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Rerun941 wrote: | Meanwhile, back on topic...
If the PC makes his Magnify Senses or Shift Sense roll, he gets to add his Sense dice to whatever appropriate Search/Perception roll for the duration of the power. |
That's a pretty good one. Nice and simple, although I'm sure there will be others on this list who feel it is another way to unbalance the game in the Jedi's favor (down, garhkal, down! ).
I would like it if there were some sort of proximity modifier for Perception, even if it was something that replaced set range brackets with something descriptive, like the Proximity rules for Force powers.
A few years back I wrote up a rule concept that I never used that would have replaced weapon ranges entirely with a generalized range system. Instead of having weapon ranges listed in meters, the GM would decide whether combat was occurring at Point-Blank, Short, Medium, Long, Very Long or Extreme ranges, and each weapon would have a base difficulty number for how well it performed at each range. Something like a sniper rifle would be almost useless at Point Blank range, but function very well at Extreme, while a Hold-Out Blaster would be deadly at Point Blank, so-so at Short, and relatively useless any further out than that.
Something similar would work well for Perception, with rules for how Perception functions at various general range brackets.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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