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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:14 am Post subject: TIE Fighters: Lasers or Blasters? |
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Having gone back and watched the original trilogy more than once, I have noticed that TIE fighters have a noticeably higher rate of fire than X-Wings. In the RAW, it is possible for starfighters to be fitted with Laser Cannon or Blaster Cannon, so based on the canon evidence, I would suggest that all pre-Interceptor TIE Fighters are, in fact, equipped with Blaster Cannon, not Laser Cannon.
Also, I have noticed that, during the Trench Run, Vader's TIE fighter fires dead ahead, but then tracks to the right as it continues firing at one of the Alliance fighters. My theory on this is tied in with a weapon called an Autoblaster that is found mounted on the Z-10 Seeker Courier starship. The description of the Z-10 states that it was fitted with an Autoblaster to assist the pilot in fire control as the ship wasn't equipped to carry a gunner. IMO, Vader's TIE prototype was equipped with Dual Autoblasters, an upgrade on the regular blasters found on TIE fighters.
I haven't really come up with a rule for Autoblasters, but based on visual evidence from E4, I would suggest something like, for every round the Autoblaster is fired at the same target, the gunner receives a cumulative +1D bonus to Fire Control.
Thoughts?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: |
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I think one shouldt make too much of exactly what is happening in the movies, at least not on such a detailed level. I dont think much thought has been put when making the movies exactly on what different rates of fire means. Someone wanted TIEs to fire faster, and they did. Probably because it seemed cooler.
Ie, do what you want and dont worry too much how it is in the movies..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | I think one shouldt make too much of exactly what is happening in the movies, at least not on such a detailed level. I dont think much thought has been put when making the movies exactly on what different rates of fire means. Someone wanted TIEs to fire faster, and they did. Probably because it seemed cooler.
Ie, do what you want and dont worry too much how it is in the movies.. |
And what if what I want is to have my gameplay experience reflect how it is in the movies as accurately as possible?
IMO, blasters would be perfect for the TIE's mission. Lasers tend to be found on the heavier starfighters, and can be used against small capital ships in a pinch. Blasters, on the other hand, tend to the smaller end of the scale, which would allow them to engage both starfighters and projectiles. A vessel designed to operate independently, like almost all Rebel starfighters, would need the added punch that a laser cannon would offer, as it would often have to face much larger vessels without Capital Ship backup. A TIE, on the other hand, is designed almost exclusively for operating in support of larger ships. Its job is to stay in close and protect its mothership from other starfighters, as well as any missiles that they manage to launch. A blaster cannon's higher rate of fire and lower damage is perfect for such a mission.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: |
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My explanation:
The TIE's are firing single fire with dual laser cannons hence firing at a rate of 1 shot per unit of time.
The X-wings are firing Quad fired or possibly doubled. They fire slower. You can set the Quad lasers to fire in single fire mode. The rebel pilots chose not to do so.
As we play that TIE's firing single get +1D to hit and do 4D damage. TIE's firing double get +0D to hit and do 5D damage.
X-wings firing single: +2D to hit and 4D damage; double: +1D to hit and 5D damage; Quad: +0D to hit and 6D damage. |
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Lancil
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Also, I have noticed that, during the Trench Run, Vader's TIE fighter fires dead ahead, but then tracks to the right as it continues firing at one of the Alliance fighters. |
This sounds like how the real world M1-A2 acquires and "holds" targets. The tank commander "tags" targets with his computer sight and that is relayed to the gunner in order. So, as the gunner is firing at one target the commander is acquiring his next for him. I can see this as "Vader" in this example acquiring targets and the computer auto firing. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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For vader's ship, i would say the guns have a 'degree' of swivel to them..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | My explanation:
The TIE's are firing single fire with dual laser cannons hence firing at a rate of 1 shot per unit of time.
The X-wings are firing Quad fired or possibly doubled. They fire slower. You can set the Quad lasers to fire in single fire mode. The rebel pilots chose not to do so.
As we play that TIE's firing single get +1D to hit and do 4D damage. TIE's firing double get +0D to hit and do 5D damage.
X-wings firing single: +2D to hit and 4D damage; double: +1D to hit and 5D damage; Quad: +0D to hit and 6D damage. |
That was my original thought, but going back to the original Star Wars, TIE fighters have at least 4 times the fire rate of an X-Wing set to dual fire. IMO, changing the weaponry on TIE fighters to blaster cannon is a better fit with what they are seen to do. Plus, WEG has screwed the pooch more than once when it comes to accurate stat conversions, so I have few qualms about changing something up.
I play a similar rule with X-Wings, that their laser cannon stats in their description are set on double fire, but that the pilot may select to shift 1D either way between Damage and Fire Control, representing the pilot's selection of single, double or quad-fire modes. In game terms, the pilot would have to declare his firing mode in advance, with the resulting stats:
Single Fire: 4D Fire Control, 5D Damage
Dual Fire: 3D Fire Control, 6D Damage
Quad Fire: 2D Fire Control, 7D Damage
I also use similar rules for ships equipped with Dual Laser Cannon (Y-Wings) or Quad-Lasers (like TIE Interceptors or the Millennium Falcon)
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
Single Fire: 4D Fire Control, 5D Damage
Dual Fire: 3D Fire Control, 6D Damage
Quad Fire: 2D Fire Control, 7D Damage
I also use similar rules for ships equipped with Dual Laser Cannon (Y-Wings) or Quad-Lasers (like TIE Interceptors or the Millennium Falcon) |
Ah, I see you've set the base point as dual fire mode. I used quad fire as the base point. Otherwise the same. Great minds and all... |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Ah, I see you've set the base point as dual fire mode. I used quad fire as the base point. Otherwise the same. Great minds and all... |
I use stock damage as the base for dual fire vs. single fire on starships equipped with dual laser cannon (specifically the Y-Wing, as the fire rate observed on A-Wings in ROTJ makes me wonder if they aren't equipped with blasters, too).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:01 am Post subject: Re: TIE Fighters: Lasers or Blasters? |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Having gone back and watched the original trilogy more than once, I have noticed that TIE fighters have a noticeably higher rate of fire than X-Wings. In the RAW, it is possible for starfighters to be fitted with Laser Cannon or Blaster Cannon, so based on the canon evidence, I would suggest that all pre-Interceptor TIE Fighters are, in fact, equipped with Blaster Cannon, not Laser Cannon. |
I don't think that a laser cannon has a set fire rate. A 20mm cannon in real life can have a fire rate anywhere between once a minute for a bad muzzleloader to 100 rounds/second for a vulcan cannon. | crmcneill wrote: |
Also, I have noticed that, during the Trench Run, Vader's TIE fighter fires dead ahead, but then tracks to the right as it continues firing at one of the Alliance fighters. My theory on this is tied in with a weapon called an Autoblaster that is found mounted on the Z-10 Seeker Courier starship. The description of the Z-10 states that it was fitted with an Autoblaster to assist the pilot in fire control as the ship wasn't equipped to carry a gunner. IMO, Vader's TIE prototype was equipped with Dual Autoblasters, an upgrade on the regular blasters found on TIE fighters.
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That tracking to the side is the fire control. Weapons that can't do that say they are fixed, can only hit targets directly in front of them, and have a fire control of 0D. | crmcneill wrote: |
I haven't really come up with a rule for Autoblasters, but based on visual evidence from E4, I would suggest something like, for every round the Autoblaster is fired at the same target, the gunner receives a cumulative +1D bonus to Fire Control.
Thoughts? |
I think the B-wing mounts a pair of autoblasters. I haven't seen anything to suggest they fire on their own, but some people have interpreted the auto as meaning high fire rate. They list the autoblaster as "sustained fire" and give it a pool of 4D extra dice which can be drawn from to hit a target, with the remaining dice going to damage. I think 4 may be a little too many dice, though.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Personally i run the Bwing autoblaster as a droid controled weapon.. the 4d fire control is like a droid operating it with 4d in gunnery..
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: |
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By what I understand from the movies not I haven't seen any fighter with lasers. Since lasers are light and thus would be seen as a beam unless seen from a farseeing Jedi from great distance or in extreme slow motion (although I fail to understand how you can see a laser in vacuum unless it passes though emission from an engine), it stands to reason that all fighters use blasters.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | | By what I understand from the movies not I haven't seen any fighter with lasers. Since lasers are light and thus would be seen as a beam unless seen from a farseeing Jedi from great distance or in extreme slow motion (although I fail to understand how you can see a laser in vacuum unless it passes though emission from an engine), it stands to reason that all fighters use blasters. |
Laser...blaster..potato...potahto...tomato...tomahto  Yeah, remember in Star Wars it's laser not LASER. |
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Random Numbers wrote: | | By what I understand from the movies not I haven't seen any fighter with lasers. Since lasers are light and thus would be seen as a beam unless seen from a farseeing Jedi from great distance or in extreme slow motion (although I fail to understand how you can see a laser in vacuum unless it passes though emission from an engine), it stands to reason that all fighters use blasters. |
Laser...blaster..potato...potahto...tomato...tomahto Yeah, remember in Star Wars it's laser not LASER. |
Oh it's a "laaaaser"! And in SW space we DO here you scream 
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | | By what I understand from the movies not I haven't seen any fighter with lasers. Since lasers are light and thus would be seen as a beam unless seen from a farseeing Jedi from great distance or in extreme slow motion (although I fail to understand how you can see a laser in vacuum unless it passes though emission from an engine), it stands to reason that all fighters use blasters. |
Building on what Bren wrote, I think the most plausible explanation of a laser cannon is that it uses a laser to turn a gas to a plasma state and then shoots the glob of plasma out of the muzzle. That's why the shots travel at subliminal velocities in bolt form.
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