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Madwand
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 Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:12 am Post subject: Aing-Tii and the Force |
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According to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aing-Tii:
| Quote: | | The Aing-Tii had a different view of the Force from that of other Force-users: they believed that even one who was not Force-sensitive could manipulate the energy field to do his or her bidding. Although Aing-Tii avoided using these "gifts," the monks could instantaneously move an object—ranging in size from small items to 300-meter-long ships—from one location to another, an ability not mastered by even the most powerful of Jedi or Sith. They were also able to teach this power to non-Force-sensitives. |
My non-Force sensitive PC has recently had the opportunity to learn this talent from the Aing-Tii. Unfortunately I and my GM are uncertain exactly how this ability would work. Does anyone have any thoughts about how to write up this ability? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:21 am Post subject: Re: Aing-Tii and the Force |
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| Madwand wrote: | According to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aing-Tii:
The Aing-Tii had a different view of the Force from that of other Force-users: they believed that even one who was not Force-sensitive could manipulate the energy field to do his or her bidding. Although Aing-Tii avoided using these "gifts," the monks could instantaneously move an object—ranging in size from small items to 300-meter-long ships—from one location to another, an ability not mastered by even the most powerful of Jedi or Sith. They were also able to teach this power to non-Force-sensitives.
My non-Force sensitive PC has recently had the opportunity to learn this talent from the Aing-Tii. Unfortunately I and my GM are uncertain exactly how this ability would work. Does anyone have any thoughts about how to write up this ability? |
Well, I would suggest a combination of rules for difficulty. The size of the object would definitely be a factor, and the proximity as well. For the later, I would use the general proximity rules for Force use (page 142 in the 2R&E Sourcebook). As for the other, probably the simplest would be to use the object's Strength or Hull dice rating (with Scale modifier included) as an added difficulty. Most likely, something Capital Ship Scale like the Aing-Tii cruisers would only be able to be teleported by a group of mind-melded Aing-Tii working in concert. |
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Madwand
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| Interesting. We've already had an NPC that uses this ability to teleport the 300m frigate we're in vast interstallar distances (it's faster than our x.5 hyperdrive). Given that, I'm not sure the difficulties indicated for distance in that table are appropriate. Or does the Kathol Rift just make teleporting easier? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| Madwand wrote: | | Interesting. We've already had an NPC that uses this ability to teleport the 300m frigate we're in vast interstallar distances (it's faster than our x.5 hyperdrive). Given that, I'm not sure the difficulties indicated for distance in that table are appropriate. Or does the Kathol Rift just make teleporting easier? |
That's a little too munchkin for me. The only visible occurrence of a single being using this power is Jorj Kar'das transporting a pitcher of water from the kitchen to the library. One being tossing a 300m frigate across interstellar distances is the realm of high-end force users. Even most other game systems that allow teleportation place pretty stringent limits on exactly how much you can take with you. IMO, the only reason the Ain-Tii Sanhderim cruisers are capable of this is because they have multiple beings using this power in concert to achieve a spectacular effect. Even that wouldn't be without difficulty. After all, look at what happened to Dorsk 81 when he pushed the Pellaeon's Star Destroyers out of the Yavin solar system in Darksaber (admittedly, we don't know which power he used, but the speed with which the event occurs suggests it might be something similar). He was the focal point for this group power, and it literally burned him out. |
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | My non-Force sensitive PC has recently had the opportunity to learn this talent from the Aing-Tii. Unfortunately I and my GM are uncertain exactly how this ability would work. Does anyone have any thoughts about how to write up this ability? |
There are actually very specific rules in the Darkstryder campaign book: Endgame. It's called Ta-Ree magic. I won't post too much info, since I don't feel like transcribing the entire chapter onto the forum. The major differences include:
A) Unlike force skills, Ta-Ree magic is learned in individual skills, no attributes. No Control/Sense/Alter.
B) 20cp to learn the first D in a Ta-Ree spell, training time 10 weeks. (If you run off mid training and do not finish with your master, there is a possibility of the power blowing up in your face.)
C) Ta-Ree magic is not usable anywhere except on the planet Kathol, period.
| Quote: | Introduction:
The Term "Ta-Ree" refers to the near magical abilities that sentient beings on the DarkStryder planet capable of. Ta-Ree powers (often referred to as "spells") are on par with many Jedi abilities, but are intimately bound to Kathol itself; Ta-Ree abilities can not be used anywhere except this ancient planet. |
If you read into the bio, the only Aing-Tii that leave their home world in Kathol Sector are force sensitive, so him teaching you any of the non-force abilities is useless off world. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Madwand wrote: | | Interesting. We've already had an NPC that uses this ability to teleport the 300m frigate we're in vast interstallar distances (it's faster than our x.5 hyperdrive). Given that, I'm not sure the difficulties indicated for distance in that table are appropriate. Or does the Kathol Rift just make teleporting easier? |
Your idea about the Kathol Rift enhancing the capacity of this power is an intriguing one, but in Vision of the Future, there is a specific instance where an Aing-Tii ship transports itself and the Wild Karrde from Exocron to the Imperial Remnant, literally the other side of the galaxy (according to the Essential Atlas book). |
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Madwand
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Your idea about the Kathol Rift enhancing the capacity of this power is an intriguing one, but in Vision of the Future, there is a specific instance where an Aing-Tii ship transports itself and the Wild Karrde from Exocron to the Imperial Remnant, literally the other side of the galaxy (according to the Essential Atlas book). |
So this is the kind of thing I was hoping to do (eventually). What you describe here doesn't seem like the same thing as Ta-Ree magic. I'd love to hear some guesses as to how to do this as a PC. It's already established in the game world that this possible, now we just need the rules for it.
I'm not worried about the ability being game-breaking. Our campaign has been running well over a year now and our Force-users are running at 9D+ in Force skills. I'm just looking to have my PC learn something that would be unique and contribute something that the Force users can't by default do better than me. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Looking at force powers, i cant believe there is a way for non force users to learn force skills, even the A-ting version.
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Madwand
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, I'm a little bit curious myself what the original source is for Wookiepedia's claim that non-Force-sensitives can learn this power. It's interesting stuff. It's not too relevant for my game because the GM has already decided to allow it but I'd still like to know more about where this came from. |
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Madwand wrote: | | Yes, I'm a little bit curious myself what the original source is for Wookiepedia's claim that non-Force-sensitives can learn this power. It's interesting stuff. It's not too relevant for my game because the GM has already decided to allow it but I'd still like to know more about where this came from. |
The source is Jorj Car'das' commentary in Vision of the Future.
As for making it a non-FS ability, that will require more thought. IMO, probably the best way to do that would be to limit it strictly to individuals who are trained by the Aing-Tii monks. This shouldn't be something the average person could just stumble over. With that as a basis, you could allow the trainee to gain, say, 1D in whatever skills you find appropriate. This definitely sounds like Sense and Alter at the very least.
It might also be something that one could make a special skill or ability, completely separate from normal Force sensitivity. Give the character the Aing-Tii Mysticism (or whatever) skill, and allow them to build skill dice as normal, so that the skill has nothing to do with whether or not a character is Force Sensitive.
On a related note, I would suggest something similar for the White Current abilities in Cracken's Threat Dossier, since the description in the Black Fleet Crisis was quite clear that one didn't have to be Force sensitive to use those powers. |
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Madwand
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | As for making it a non-FS ability, that will require more thought. IMO, probably the best way to do that would be to limit it strictly to individuals who are trained by the Aing-Tii monks. This shouldn't be something the average person could just stumble over. With that as a basis, you could allow the trainee to gain, say, 1D in whatever skills you find appropriate. This definitely sounds like Sense and Alter at the very least.
It might also be something that one could make a special skill or ability, completely separate from normal Force sensitivity. Give the character the Aing-Tii Mysticism (or whatever) skill, and allow them to build skill dice as normal, so that the skill has nothing to do with whether or not a character is Force Sensitive.
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This sounds like it's pretty close to what my GM wants to do. Can you or anyone suggest a list of "Aing-Tii Mysticism" powers that the Aing-Tii might have? Would all of these be available to non-Force sensitives, or just some of them? |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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To me having force powers, spells, mysticism etc available to non force sensitives is like in an adnd game giving spell power to non spellcasting classes..
Also would these 'non force sensitives' with force powers, have to worry about the dark side as much due to being NFS or, would they worry as much as jedi do since they have powers?
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Madwand wrote: | | This sounds like it's pretty close to what my GM wants to do. Can you or anyone suggest a list of "Aing-Tii Mysticism" powers that the Aing-Tii might have? Would all of these be available to non-Force sensitives, or just some of them? |
OK, I did a little research, and this theory of mine won't work. The original source on the Aing-Tii monks is the Kathol Outback adventure supplement, and in this supplement, it states that all the Aing-Tii monks were Force Sensitive. Furthermore, it give no mention of the teleportation ability. It can only be assumed that that was a plot device invented by Timothy Zahn for the purposes of furthering his story (not that that's a bad thing).
So, revised theory. We all know the common theory is that Jedi have to be born with the sensitivity to become Jedi. However, the WEG rules state that a non-Force Sensitive character can become Force Sensitive during the course of a campaign, at the cost of 20 CPs. I submit that the prevailing theory on Jedi is correct only in the sense that, during the pre-Clone Wars era, Jedi were selected from infancy, and that those with latent Force Sensitivity that emerged later in life were already too old to begin training, under orthodox Jedi rules. However, other Force using beliefs did not share the Jedi's belief, and were willing to help others find their way to "enlightenment", as it were.
As far as the Aing-Tii, they are correct in that anyone may learn to use their ways. However, someone who is not Force Sensitive must spend their time in meditation or preparation until they achieve the enlightenment necessary to continue. In game terms, a non-Force Sensitive person wishing to learn techniques from the Aing-Tii must first acquire the CPs necessary to spend on gaining Force Sensitivity. Once that sensitivity is gained, they may then begin to learn the techniques.
This means that the Aing-Tii teleportation abilities would be part of the normal Force Power tree, but considered separate, only able to be learned from an Aing-Tii practitioner, not a Jedi. The same would be true of the Fallanassi and their use of the White Current.
IMO, the teleportation technique would be an aspect of the Unifying Force, in the way that all things and all places are connected to each other through the Force. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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I did a little background reading on the Aing-Tii, and it seems Zahn may have gone a little overboard.
The Aing-Tii are very reclusive, and although they do exhibit Force powers, they only use them rarely, at best, believing them to be "Gifts from Those who dwell beyond the Veil." The Veil may refer to the Kathol rift, or something more supernatural. The Aing-Tii feel that this power is a gift, and should not be meddled with.
Also, they are very reclusive, and do not respond well to people who pester them.
Bottom line, this power is really not the sort of thing that the average PC could just stumble across, at least not the Aing-Tii version of it. There would need to be a major backstory as to how this person managed to get close enough to the Aing-Tii to actually learn this ability.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Madwand
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Backstory? Well it's not too relevant because the learning has already happened -- I'm here to get some ideas on what my PC might have actually learned. But all right: first, this is the late Legacy era, and the Aing-Tii are less reclusive by then (at least in this version of the universe). Then our group spent a couple months of real time tracking them down -- more in game time. Then I traded a frigate for the chance to learn, among a few other things.
Not enough? Well, I'm not sure it matters. I think you might be right that Zahn went too far, it's a crime shared by many authors in the extended universe for the sake of their story. But in this version of the universe, the events of Vision of the Future are apparently cannon. I'm just trying to get some ideas for how the ability might work that I can run by the GM.
So, to wit: What Force powers should Aing-Tii monks actually have? Presumably they would only have a subset of the powers available to Jedi or Sith, plus some unique powers of their own. Perhaps only a subset of those could be learned by non-Force sensitives. What I'm interested in are ideas for what those powers might be. Any ideas?
And yeah, i have plenty of banked CP to pay whatever costs are necessary: I've been saving for months. I prefer to keep my PC non-Force sensitive for flavor reasons, but it would be nice to have something I could contribute to the group that Jedi with 9D+ Force skills can't automatically be better at than me. |
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