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ZzaphodD
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 Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Because from speaking to some of the developers at Gencon 99, that 'reaction parry, in the same round as a reaction dodge' was for doing 2 defenses.. one ranged (dodge), one close in (brawl/melee defense).. NOT for doing both against incoming blaster attacks. |
Yet the rules clearly state that "you can use a reaction skill at any time" and that "the Jedi may use lightsaber combat to parry blaster bolts as a reaction skill" see Lightsaber Combat on p. 148. Some of the designers may not have wanted to allow 2 defenses, but the rules clearly imply that 2 defenses are allowed and nothing in the rules contradicts this. |
Good then. Not that it matters much when it comes to your own game anyway.. 
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Because from speaking to some of the developers at Gencon 99, that 'reaction parry, in the same round as a reaction dodge' was for doing 2 defenses.. one ranged (dodge), one close in (brawl/melee defense).. NOT for doing both against incoming blaster attacks. |
Yet the rules clearly state that "you can use a reaction skill at any time" and that "the Jedi may use lightsaber combat to parry blaster bolts as a reaction skill" see Lightsaber Combat on p. 148. Some of the designers may not have wanted to allow 2 defenses, but the rules clearly imply that 2 defenses are allowed and nothing in the rules contradicts this. |
True, you CAN do a reaction parry. BUT not right after a reaction dodge...
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Bren
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | True, you CAN do a reaction parry. BUT not right after a reaction dodge... |
But the rules say you can do a reaction parry right after a reaction dodge.
| Star Wars RPG RAE page 90 wrote: | | Example: Thannik is being shot at by a stormtrooper, so he decides to dodge. The stromtrooper is at short range: Easy difficulty, with a difficulty number of 8. Thannik rolls his dodge of 6D and gets a 27. Now. the stormtrooper must roll a 27 or better to hit Thannik. Anyone else who shoots at Thannik in this round must also roll a 27 or better. However , if someone makes a brawling attack on Thannik, the difficulty is still Very Easy (difficulty number of 5); if Thannik wanted to block the attack, he'd also have to make a brawling parry roll. |
Note that the rules clearly state that making a reaction parry after a reaction dodge is allowed. You may not like it, but them's the rules as written. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:29 am Post subject: |
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Thats for 2 seperate attacks..
RE READ that example... If thankik DODGES, and then someone comes in to brawl, he cam make a BRAWL parry..
NOT he can dodge, then if still getting hit, can dodge again!!!
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:05 am Post subject: |
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True, you can't roll 2 reaction dodges, but the dodge would stand from the original attack.
So, if you rolled your dodge to avoid blaster fire, and someone threw a grenade, then your reactive dodge stands as a difficulty against the grenade throw.
What Bren and I were saying, is that per the Rules, a character could parry blaster fire with a lightsaber, and then attempt a dodge to avoid being blown up by a grenade. 2 separate attacks to 2 separate reactive defenses, which is the rule as you said. |
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Bren
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Thats for 2 seperate attacks..
RE READ that example... If thankik DODGES, and then someone comes in to brawl, he cam make a BRAWL parry..
NOT he can dodge, then if still getting hit, can dodge again!!! |
No one is saying Thannik gets two dodges. I have provided multiple quotes to support what the rules actually say. You have yet to provide a single quote and source.
If you want to claim the rules as written prohibit what has been proposed please provide a quote and page reference. Until you do, I will have to consider that you are just stating a personal preference or an undefinded house rule based on that personal preference, not anything actually based on the rules as written. |
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Random Numbers
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Let's say I'm standing still and parrying a blaster bolt. I succeed. The next round I start running to be a harder target. Am I not allowed to parry the blaster bolt because I'm harder to hit this round?
Or I'm making myself harder to hit by standing farther away from the shooter. I don't see any reason, logical-wise, that I should not be able to parry the blaster bolts I don't succeed in dodging. In RAW, this makes little Sense, since Lightsaber parry is so über. There is no need to dodge. But in Zaphopds system it makes sense to dodge.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | Thats for 2 seperate attacks..
RE READ that example... If thankik DODGES, and then someone comes in to brawl, he cam make a BRAWL parry..
NOT he can dodge, then if still getting hit, can dodge again!!! |
No one is saying Thannik gets two dodges. I have provided multiple quotes to support what the rules actually say. You have yet to provide a single quote and source.
If you want to claim the rules as written prohibit what has been proposed please provide a quote and page reference. Until you do, I will have to consider that you are just stating a personal preference or an undefinded house rule based on that personal preference, not anything actually based on the rules as written. |
What your claiming is that those rules are in your favor for dodging blaster THEN parrying it, when they are not.
| Quote: | | What Bren and I were saying, is that per the Rules, a character could parry blaster fire with a lightsaber, and then attempt a dodge to avoid being blown up by a grenade. 2 separate attacks to 2 separate reactive defenses, which is the rule as you said. |
Correct. BUT it seems bren and C seem to think they can dodge a blaster shot THEN parry other blaster shots that make it past the dodge, which is NOT how the RAW works.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Correct. BUT it seems bren and C seem to think they can dodge a blaster shot THEN parry other blaster shots that make it past the dodge, which is NOT how the RAW works. |
Speaking for myself, I am less interested in the RAW than I am in realistic. If a Jedi declares a Dodge at the beginning of the round, in general making himself a more difficult target to hit as opposed to dodging a specific attack, I see no problem with him then being able to use his lightsaber to parry attacks that do actually make it through. MAPs should provide sufficient penalty fr the character's divided attention.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Correct. BUT it seems bren and C seem to think they can dodge a blaster shot THEN parry other blaster shots that make it past the dodge, which is NOT how the RAW works. |
Speaking for myself, I am less interested in the RAW than I am in realistic. If a Jedi declares a Dodge at the beginning of the round, in general making himself a more difficult target to hit as opposed to dodging a specific attack, I see no problem with him then being able to use his lightsaber to parry attacks that do actually make it through. MAPs should provide sufficient penalty fr the character's divided attention. |
I think that focusing on 'making it through' is what some people get hung up on. The defencing character is just moving in a manner to make himself less likely to get hit, and parrying those shots that manage to hit. No different from standing still more than that he gets a map for doing two things at the same time. If he would get to try two parries against the same blaster attack on the other hand...
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Bren
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | What your claiming is that those rules are in your favor for dodging blaster THEN parrying it, when they are not. |
What page in the rule book tells you that??
| Quote: | | ... BUT it seems bren and C seem to think they can dodge a blaster shot THEN parry other blaster shots that make it past the dodge, which is NOT how the RAW works. |
And where in the RAW does it say that you cannot both dodge and use lightsaber parry in the same round???
garhkal, you seem utterly convinced your point of view is supported by the rules then please provide a quote and page reference. If, as you keep saying the RAW prohibits this, it should be pretty easy for you to open up your copy of the rules and find at least one reference. |
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | I think that focusing on 'making it through' is what some people get hung up on. The defencing character is just moving in a manner to make himself less likely to get hit, and parrying those shots that manage to hit. No different from standing still more than that he gets a map for doing two things at the same time. If he would get to try two parries against the same blaster attack on the other hand... |
So, if I understand you correctly, Z, you are proposing not that a character get a reaction dodge and a reaction parry in response to a single shot, but that he be allowed a declared dodge at the beginning of the round, against all attacks that round in general, and a reaction parry against any shots that beat the dodge?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | I think that focusing on 'making it through' is what some people get hung up on. The defencing character is just moving in a manner to make himself less likely to get hit, and parrying those shots that manage to hit. No different from standing still more than that he gets a map for doing two things at the same time. If he would get to try two parries against the same blaster attack on the other hand... |
So, if I understand you correctly, Z, you are proposing not that a character get a reaction dodge and a reaction parry in response to a single shot, but that he be allowed a declared dodge at the beginning of the round, against all attacks that round in general, and a reaction parry against any shots that beat the dodge? |
Nah, you must make a difference between the rule mechanics and what really happens in 'real life'. Just because the character in 'real life' moves in a way to avoid being hit and parries any shots that manage to hit, doesnt mean that the rules mechanics work in exactly that way. The same goes for many different actions in the game. The mechanics makes us declare and play things in a way that is not exactly how they are done 'live' in character so to speak.
The declarations are done at the same time. Trying to figure out where those blaster shots are going to land is a map, even if they dont hit.
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Random Numbers
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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This is as I see it, and it works with Zaphods rule. Someone points a gun at you and fire. You declare your reaction. You decide that you will try to dodge and parry, dodge or just parry.
You cannot declare to dodge and then wait to see if you are hit, and then declare your parry. The maps are there even if the attacker doesn't even get close.
As far as I understand, no one is proposing that you get to choose how many reactions you use depending on wether you get hit or not. As far as I understand this is a nerf to the Jedi lightsaber parry RAW.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Nah, you must make a difference between the rule mechanics and what really happens in 'real life'. Just because the character in 'real life' moves in a way to avoid being hit and parries any shots that manage to hit, doesnt mean that the rules mechanics work in exactly that way. The same goes for many different actions in the game. The mechanics makes us declare and play things in a way that is not exactly how they are done 'live' in character so to speak.
The declarations are done at the same time. Trying to figure out where those blaster shots are going to land is a map, even if they dont hit. |
That is where we will have to agree to disagree, I suppose. IMO, a rule mechanic should be a realistic depiction of "real life" action. AFAIC, the only reason a Jedi would be able to do both actions at once would be because of the precognitive guidance of the Force. He wouldn't need to figure out which blaster shots would hit; the Force would let him know. Throwing in the Dodge roll simply makes it less likely for him to need to parry the shots.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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