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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Madwand wrote: | Now... emulating a minigun is certainly something these rules could do. A single round from such a weapon is probably equivalent to a single shot from a battle rifle (5D). The most common model of minigun is about 4000 rpm or 66 rps. As a "burst" can be shorter than a second, so a +5D autofire bonus would be appropriate (for between 32-63 shots/burst). This gives us a maximum of 10D character-scale damage. Miniguns are vehicle-mounted, so I'd actually make this 8D speeder-scale. Perhaps not coincidentally, you can use 2D autofire bonus to offset the scale penalty and make the weapon exactly equivalent to an E-web.
These rules seem to work pretty well when you apply them to a real weapon. |
Not really. It is the same problem with the Z-6 only applied to real world values. 10D character scale damage will threaten modern APCs and tanks that would be immune to 7.62mm rounds.
And 10D character scale damage in the game is enough to turn that weapon into something that can drop AT-ATs and X-Wings.
This gets even nasiter since PCs can take multiple actions against the larger vehicles since they will be getting extra to hit dice from scaling.
Maybe the solution could be to force the shooter to split his autofire bonus evenly between to hit and damage? That would keep the damages down. |
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Madwand
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Joined: 06 May 2009
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
Not really. It is the same problem with the Z-6 only applied to real world values. 10D character scale damage will threaten modern APCs and tanks that would be immune to 7.62mm rounds.
And 10D character scale damage in the game is enough to turn that weapon into something that can drop AT-ATs and X-Wings.
This gets even nasiter since PCs can take multiple actions against the larger vehicles since they will be getting extra to hit dice from scaling.
Maybe the solution could be to force the shooter to split his autofire bonus evenly between to hit and damage? That would keep the damages down. |
I don't have a problem with the way the math turned out. The E-web does similar damage. I DO have a problem with the low hull values of speeders and "tanks". There's a lot of these that have hulls of 2D-3D. You can take them out with a single blaster shot, which I find ridiculous. But that's not a problem with my house rule, that's a problem with RAW scaling and hull values.
An additional house rule that allows armor with twice the character-scale value of the base damage of a fire linked or repeating weapon to automatically bounce that damage would be fine by me. |
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | R. Perhaps one could establish some default values and apply to most vehicles/ships. |
I've been messaround around with this idea, and so far the best "default rule" I have is to use half the Body/Hull STR as expressed n character scale. For instance a AT-AT (6D Body STR Walker scale), would have a 10D Body in scharacter scale. Half that is 5D, so anything that did 5D or less would "bounce" off the AT-AT.
Such a rule will make large vehicles immune to small arms fire, something that is probasbly realistic, but might be problematic for some adventure ideas. |
I think one has to differ between civilian and military crafts. Perhaps having combat vehicles in between (as used by security forces but not full military). Civilian vehicles/ships would have at most 1D armor or so. 'Combat' vehicles 1/4 of hull value and Military (as the AT-AT above) 1/2. I dont know, this is just brainstorming. I think doing this by the seat of your pants might be the best thing.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Maybe the solution could be to force the shooter to split his autofire bonus evenly between to hit and damage? That would keep the damages down. |
This I already do as detailed in a post above. At least at medium and long range. It also represent the 'spread' of burst/automatic fire at anything but close range.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Madwand wrote: |
I don't have a problem with the way the math turned out. The E-web does similar damage. I DO have a problem with the low hull values of speeders and "tanks". There's a lot of these that have hulls of 2D-3D. You can take them out with a single blaster shot, which I find ridiculous. But that's not a problem with my house rule, that's a problem with RAW scaling and hull values. |
Itis certainly true that the problem predated you house rule (by several decades). But one unfortunatel bypproduct of you house rule is that it can aggravate the problem.
I7ve stated elsewhere that the big problem is the crummy stats that vehciles got in the old SW Sourcebook (pre-scaling), and how the scaling rules were sort of a fix for those stats.
Frankly, I think the best way to fix this would be to redo the vechile stats, and eliminate scaling, but that would be a herculean task and make all the stuff we have now moot.
| Madwand wrote: |
An additional house rule that allows armor with twice the character-scale value of the base damage of a fire linked or repeating weapon to automatically bounce that damage would be fine by me. |
I'm just trying to plug the leak. The quick rule is one way to get around giving everything an armor rating. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: |
I think one has to differ between civilian and military crafts. Perhaps having combat vehicles in between (as used by security forces but not full military). Civilian vehicles/ships would have at most 1D armor or so. 'Combat' vehicles 1/4 of hull value and Military (as the AT-AT above) 1/2. I dont know, this is just brainstorming. I think doing this by the seat of your pants might be the best thing. |
Somewhat. THere is also the vehicles performace to consider. Something that can fly by at 1000kph needs a structure that can withstand the forces that go with it. Even if it is a civilian vehicle.
One thing that would work would be to reverse enginee values using D6 Space Ships (or the vehicles rules I7m working on). In Ships, spacecraft get a base Hull value from thier mass, and can then increase it by bying armor. So it would be possible to figure out armor values for existing ships that way.
THe difficlty is in figuring out what 1D starfighter or captical ship scale armor would mean. Would we add the scaling mod and end up with spaceships immune to small arms fire? |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: |
I think one has to differ between civilian and military crafts. Perhaps having combat vehicles in between (as used by security forces but not full military). Civilian vehicles/ships would have at most 1D armor or so. 'Combat' vehicles 1/4 of hull value and Military (as the AT-AT above) 1/2. I dont know, this is just brainstorming. I think doing this by the seat of your pants might be the best thing. |
Somewhat. THere is also the vehicles performace to consider. Something that can fly by at 1000kph needs a structure that can withstand the forces that go with it. Even if it is a civilian vehicle.
One thing that would work would be to reverse enginee values using D6 Space Ships (or the vehicles rules I7m working on). In Ships, spacecraft get a base Hull value from thier mass, and can then increase it by bying armor. So it would be possible to figure out armor values for existing ships that way.
THe difficlty is in figuring out what 1D starfighter or captical ship scale armor would mean. Would we add the scaling mod and end up with spaceships immune to small arms fire? |
All this gives me a headache.. 
I think Ill just go the narrative path instead..
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