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Verpines are eating my Jawas
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Cowboy Hat
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:43 am    Post subject: Verpines are eating my Jawas Reply with quote

This might seem a little trivial considering I've managed to house rule initiative and reaction skills from 2nd Ed R&E so they're not evil or broken...but

I'm running a possible 1-3 session game with only 2-3 players as an introduction to the Star Wars universe.

One of my players is a droid repairing Jawa - with a specialization in Droid programming.

The other player wants to play a Verpine.
Verpines with their +2D to all Tech rolls, considering their other benefits, seems...well a little evil to me.

As I don't want my Jawa feeling left out I was wondering what anyone might suggest to curb the Verpine's skills or boost the Jawas innate ability.

I was thinking of having that +2 Verpine Tech roll as maybe specific to a set of skills or only available for the Tech attribute that the player has but points into Skills (and maybe of a set amount - i.e Tech 3D +1 and Starship repair 1D would get a +2D but if he had no Droid repair he'd only get his base Tech of 3D +1).

Thanks to anyone who can answer my questions, I'm new here though I've been lurking for awhile so please be nice!
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the simplest, and closest to the official text, solution to this is to have the Verpine player chose just a set of skills for which he gets the full bonus. For example, just weapon-related skills, or just starship-related skills, or just computer-related skills. I'd still retain a smaller bonus (+1/+2?) for the rest of the Tech skills, though.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch-a tough mix. Jawas are sort of tinkerers while Verpine are pretty much the best techie race in the game.

It will be hard on the Jawa.

Perhaps you could give the Jawa a "Jury-rig" or "kit-bash" special ability that could be used to cobble junk together than has no business working. Like fixing a blaster with parts from a astromech and a toaster over.
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've ruled in the past that the verpine only gets +2D to skills they actually possess so if they haven't put points into it no +2D

Allowing the Jawa to put points into jury rig would probably also help even the odds.

Also remember Verpine are used to living in a hive situatuin. You should constantly be reminding the verpine player how lonely and alone it is.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'd use the +2D to a set of skills that they have (that doesn't clash with the Jawas) and a +1 pip to rolls for all (with a +2 if I think they've described it well).

Though the player has said he's play a Gand.

Which opens up a whole other can of worms really (especially as I doubt I'll let him play a findsman)

I can't find anything on jury rigging in the book, could someone give me a page reference?

Thanks for all your answers so far.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gands are a great species to play. Just remember to whack him on the head every time he says "I", "me" or "my".

I believe you can find the jury-rigging rules in Cracken's Rebel Field Guide.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
Ouch-a tough mix. Jawas are sort of tinkerers while Verpine are pretty much the best techie race in the game.

It will be hard on the Jawa.

Perhaps you could give the Jawa a "Jury-rig" or "kit-bash" special ability that could be used to cobble junk together than has no business working. Like fixing a blaster with parts from a astromech and a toaster over.


I like that, and in addition make the Verpine used to work in fully equipped workshop in pedantic order...

That way you have two 'techies' that have different roles that dont really compete all that much.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have no issues here. It would be like someone taking a human (4d max str) and another a wookie (6d max) and asking what you could do to bring the wookie down to the humans level. Verpine are just that damn good at tech, compared to jawas.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:
Gands are a great species to play. Just remember to whack him on the head every time he says "I", "me" or "my".


In my campaign the PCs have acquired a fear of the "Gand with No Name."
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:
Gands are a great species to play. Just remember to whack him on the head every time he says "I", "me" or "my".

I believe you can find the jury-rigging rules in Cracken's Rebel Field Guide.


Ah right. Don't have that.

Yeah I like the idea of the Gand speaking in third person, mainly as the Jawa (in the game I've played with the player to work out combat) already refers to herself in the third person also.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I would have no issues here. It would be like someone taking a human (4d max str) and another a wookie (6d max) and asking what you could do to bring the wookie down to the humans level. Verpine are just that d*mn good at tech, compared to jawas.


Well it might not for you, but it would for me.

Star Wars is heavy on the combat so Strength and Dex and Mech usually play a higher importance in short games then Tech and most Perception based skills.

As I've stated, I'm running a possible one off game and I want everyone to feel involved. I'm not a SW D20 player, balance isn't my over arching concern (for I feel it's too unrealistic) but if it's a one off game where people have too similar sets of skills and one eclipses the other by a lot it will take very good dice rolling or a lot of work on my part to make sure that they don't feel left out.

As SW only has a small amount of skills to play with then there is usually at character creation a tendency to play a character who is good at X rather than a broad set of skills. Not always the case, but certainly in my experience as a player.

On an unrelated note... I'm not getting email responses to my email address. Everything is turned on for instant replies... is anyone else having this problem or is it just me forgetting the obvious.
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Rerun941
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of looking at the players as competitors, look at ways that you can challenge them, but force them to work together.

Use the combined action rules or fudge them a bit so BOTH players have to roll really high on their repair skills to save the day.

I don't know what you're challenging them with, but perhaps they have to get a ship/vehicle/droid up and running that's going to save their (and everyone else's) hides. However, the ship is too big or too complex to be fixed by one person. or they're under a time crunch to finish quickly. The jawa has to work on the weapons while the Verpine has to work on propulsion?

So instead of one player watching the other roll the dice and being envious. They BOTH have to roll well... so they end up rooting for each other to succeed.

Just my two credits.
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cowboy Hat wrote:
On an unrelated note... I'm not getting email responses to my email address. Everything is turned on for instant replies... is anyone else having this problem or is it just me forgetting the obvious.


Some time ago it was announced that the forum had lost it's ability to email people when a thread was updated. It still emails when you get a PM but that's it. Guess that one might get new members for a while as the announcment is burried under other announcements now.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultimately, this problems comes down to niche protection. Each PC needs something to differentiate them for the others, and each players needs a way to contribute to the game.

The problem here is that two characters are covering the same niche, and one will be much better than the other due to the +2D tech skill bonus. This will make the second PC seem inferior and redundant. So any solutuoin to the problem means ensuring that the Jawa has his own niche, and that the player can make important contributions with the skilsl he has.

Over the long term, much of this would work itself out with experience and training, but short term it is a obstacle.

Solutions:

-Give the Jawa some thing that he can do better than the Verpine. It doesn't matter exactly what it is as long as it is . My "jury-rig" idea does this. and fits with the Jawa's description, but it is just one possible solution. Another would be to have the Jawa focus/specialize in a specific skill that the Verprine isn't as good at.

-Distract the characters from noticing this. Rerun941's idea of keeping them both busy does this. Basically, if you have more than one thing to fix, both techs are kept busy. That can work for a short campaign, but will eventually fail over the long run.
Also, combined actions are not the way to go. Since the character with the best skill is the one who make the primary roll, and the other characters only provide a bonus, it will probably have the exact opposite effect that the one desired. It will almost instantly reduce the Jawa to secondary status. What might help would be to tweak the combine rules so that the BEST roll (not BEST character) is used as the main value, but even so the Verpine is probably going to be better and roll better.

-Downgrade the Verpine. This is what many have done as a general rule because the Verpine racial ability is so powerful. Basically it translated into a higher TEC attribute. If you decide to go this route, let your Verpine PC know before hand, sp he can change characters if he wants. Personally, I'm against downgrading the Verpine just because of the Jawa.. It not fair to have you character weakened because someone else isn't as good.

-If the players are up for it, the Verpine could become a mentor to the Jawa, much the way Jedi Master's are mentors to their Padawans. This is fine if the players don't mind that. You just have to make sure to provide challenges for the Jawa student.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
-Downgrade the Verpine. This is what many have done as a general rule because the Verpine racial ability is so powerful. Basically it translated into a higher TEC attribute. If you decide to go this route, let your Verpine PC know before hand, sp he can change characters if he wants. Personally, I'm against downgrading the Verpine just because of the Jawa.. It not fair to have you character weakened because someone else isn't as good.


That is why i said what i did..
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