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Boomer
Captain
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 688
Location: Terra Sol
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 Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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So say we all.
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:59 am Post subject: Re: ah..I just wanna blow stuff up |
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| worfbacca wrote: | | ah..I just wanna blow stuff up. |
You do remember how to fire a phaser... Don't you? |
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KageRyu
Commodore
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject: Re: ah..I just wanna blow stuff up |
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| Jedi Skyler wrote: | | You do remember how to fire a phaser... Don't you? |
Problem is Phasers don't blow things up. Of course, the good old Kirk day phasers would cover things in a blue-green aura, and disintigrate them...but now starfleet is using those darned red phasers (has something to do with a combination of beam color and sound effect, that's why they do less damage I think).
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worfbacca
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: The site has arrived |
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Just want everyone to know the site has arrived. It is still under construction. I do have stats for a galaxy class ship now. Check out the flash components and let me know what you think. The low band does'nt work yet. . .
http://www.et.byu.edu/~sat24/Courses/TTE%20350/trekwars/main.html
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Kayle Skolaris
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 224
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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So when can we expect Minbari Warcruisers, Goa'uld Ha'taks, and Peacekeeper Command Carrier conversions?  |
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worfbacca
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:51 pm Post subject: perhaps eventually |
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perhaps eventually my good man. Right now all the Star ship stats are in WP format.
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Firehawk0220
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 151
Location: Dallas, TX.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous wrote: | | weg already made lots of ship stats. You might also consider looking into the Star Trek rpg for their ship stats. |
Every single Star Trek RPG stat I have ever seen is damn near wrong. It would seem that almost no one knows how to balance the ships realistically according to the materials presented in the shows which is the only canon material for that universe anyway. Some information is flat out wrong and should be discarded. One example of this is that in almost every published work containing information about the Ferengi Maurader (later named DKora Class), a weapon that paralizes starfleet ships such as the Galaxy class is mentioned as being a standard weapon. When in fact that is in error. In the episode that weapon is "seen" it is actually the being that was hibernating on the planet surface that was responsible for the energy drain on the Enterprise AND the Ferengi ship. Thus canonically disproving the existance of such a weapon. Indeed if the Ferengi did have such a weapon they would act differently in combat situations with Starfleet ships. Instead they fear starfleet vessels of almost any type regardless of class.
For another example the hull strength isn't realisticly proportioned due to size or mass at all relative to each other. In Star Trek most of the main species have generally comparable structual alloys and material at their disposal. Therefore mass on it's own can almost be used to calculate the hull strenghts of most ships once a baseline number is achieved.
I actually have my own Star Trek RPG. I created the rules and stats years ago prior to their being a Star Trek RPG released to market. I have several of the Star Trek RPG books, and I have opted to generally keep my stuff as it works much better. When I went to design my ship stats I set the baseline of the Galaxy Class because that was the most well documented vessel and it appeared more times than any other. Using that as a base I then derived stats from Romulan ships, Klingon ships and the like taking into account size and known weapons placements in apperances throughout the series. Over the years I have refined the stats a number of times and generally a battle re-enacted from anything seen in the shows will generally turn out about the same in one of my games assuming the die rolls are balanced across both sides.
Of course aborations such as a Bird of Prey taking on a lone Galaxy Class starship and winning shields or not is next to impossible. Such rediculous things such as the battle in Star Trek Generations are ignored or explained as fluke occurances in order to provide more balanced combat situations. Granted there are situations where the combat in the series and movies contradicts more well established scenarios. One major example is Star Trek Voyager in which the Intrepid Class starship is depicted as powerful sometimes and sometimes it isn't depending on the writer of the show. In which case you sometimes have to take into account the average of depections across the series and establish the averaged performance of the vessel in all its appearances as your baseline.
I have also revised many Star Wars ship statistics in this manner. In fact there is an ongoing thread here about a corrected Executor on this forum.
Indeed a Star Trek vs. Star Wars scenario is a tough one to "realistically" flesh out due to the fact that there are many inconsistencies in published stats and ship combat performance within the confines of published or televised works. In such instances you have to evaluate specific scenarios to determine how vessels would compare.
The key is setting a baseline. Say, Galaxy Class vs. Star Destroyer (Basic ISD) and work from those two. Both vessels have probably the best documentation and the most on screen appearances out of each respective universe.
You can not simply look at published tech specs on the Galaxy Class (Enterprise D) and the Star Destroyer and go from there. For example the weapons energy output of a phaser vs. a turbo laser is hard to compare. Though on paper the power output of the Star Wars ships seems higher, you have to take into account how the vessels are depicted in actual combat conditions and apply what you can physically see in various instances as the actual baseline of performance.
This is mainly because many published stats such as those by WEG or those in obscure books like Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise or the Star Trek the Next Generation technical manual are often incorrect and highly theoretical in the first place. In some cases these theories are based very little on scientific facts.
One must compare how easily a turbo laser can destroy an asteroid vs. how easy a Federation Starship can and then compare. You must compare the type of blast as well as it's duration. Since Star Trek weaponry is generally variable in power output this becomes more difficult.
Aside from weapons analysis you have other things to compare. For example communication in Star Wars can be done in real time just about anywhere in the Galaxy. In Star Trek this is not the case.
In Star Trek it takes over 75 years to cross from the edge of the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha quadrant. Specifically to Earth which is on the outer spiral of the Milky Way galaxy. In which case (and this is just a guess) it would probably take 100 years to go from one extreme edge of the Milky Way Galaxy to the other. In Star Wars, I believe that one of the Novels states that it took Han in the Falcon, about 18 days or so to accomplish the same feat. More standard hyper drives could make that journey in closer to 3 months or less.
Sub-light performance would be similar, with speed advantages going to Federation Starships vs. Star Wars Capital ships. Obviously starfighters have an edge in manueverability to shuttle craft if you watch the behavior of each type of craft in the televised works.
Obviously Star Trek has various technologies that are beyond the scope of technology possible in the Star Wars universe. Computers in Star Wars are depicted as being utilitarian and very primitive. Yet droids show feelings and appear to be sentient. While this behavior is rare and confined to Soong type androids with positronic matrixes for brains.
Indeed hologram technology and phaser technology beats out hologram and blaster technology for utility and power respectively. A phaser is described as being able to level buildings when set on level 16 and wide field modes.
There is even more to do when designing such stats, specifications and adventures. Such as: if the Star Wars characters crossed into the Star Trek universe, would Jedi still feel connected to the force? This may sound like a simple question but its harder to answer than you think. The absense of most forms of telekinetic species and abilities in Star Trek begs to answer that question with a resounding no. Even the few appearances of telekinetic species and abilities and even that of telepaths are often explained differently.
The aspect of the Force is the one part of the Star Wars Universe that a GM would have to decide to allow or dissallow based on the design of their game rather than based on any kind of impericle evidence be it fiction or not.
Analysis for such projects must be complete and painstaking in order to get right.
| KageRyu wrote: | | Jedi Skyler wrote: | | You do remember how to fire a phaser... Don't you? |
Problem is Phasers don't blow things up. Of course, the good old Kirk day phasers would cover things in a blue-green aura, and disintigrate them...but now starfleet is using those darned red phasers (has something to do with a combination of beam color and sound effect, that's why they do less damage I think). |
No they don't. The newer phasers are more variable in application and settings. There are many instances where the new phasers are depicted as being far more powerful than those in the original series. This is especially true in published technical articles where the higher and seldom used settings are covered in detail. These settings aren't used much in the shows or movies due to the cost of the effects and constraints of the story. Not to mention the damage that would occur to a ship if phasers were used at high levels.
| Maximilian Bernas wrote: | I would like to see a decent p vs p with Star Trek and Star Wars.
Of course, phasers versus a lightsaber are still not going to work. |
Why not? A phaser is capable of wide field fire that even a Jedi couldn't block with a lightsaber. |
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worfbacca
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: A message I sent to firehawk |
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This is a PM I sent to firehawk. I wanted to post it here too:
Hey..I liked what you posted on my forum about Star Trek vs Star Wars. I would probably say I have to agree with you on 90 percent of the stuff. Have you even looked at the conversion stats I did for a Galaxy Class Starship? If you notice the hyperdrive equivalent is about a class 3000-5000 hyperdrive (butt slow) compared to star wars. The sublight engines are better than the Wars counterparts the phaser array is equivlent to about ONE turbolaser..the torpedoes have longer ranged weapons than the wars counterparts..the shields are weak (ISD has 2400 on each arc) but the shield resitance is heavier. I just hope u would check it out and tell me what you think. If you have any questions go ahead and ask. A lot of the space combat for my RPG is a combo of star wars D6 and LUC D6 STAR TREK so somethings you won't recognize unless you ask. The ISD is done but it is not formated so I will send you that link as well.
http://www.et.byu.edu/~sat24/Courses/TTE%20350/trekwars/ships/galaxyclass(AI).html
http://www.et.byu.edu/~sat24/Courses/TTE%20350/trekwars/ships/ImperialMarkone.htm
I'll post this message on the forum too. I think people are not even looking at the stats I have created.
**I don't know if the head hauncho's here want us to argue about TREK VS WARS. I'm just letting people know there is a website with ship conversion stats.
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Yank
Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Stargate Eats star wars and star trek guys sorry.. im just a stargate geek. |
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Camero
Commander
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 448
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: |
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I am very sorry for you, Yank. You're obviously a very confused person 
just messin' with ya 
But since we are sharing personal opinions I would like to say that yes, Stargate is great, but to say it 'eats' Star Wars (and even Star Trek) is just plain silly IMNSHO. Lets see where Stargate is in 30 years and see how it holds up...
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Kayle Skolaris
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 224
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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I think Yank meant the technology, not the show. Goa'uld shields have been shown to shrug off 2,000 megaton strikes without even rattling the ship. Taking into consideration that on the whole the Goa'uld are near the bottom of the space-faring technological barrel in Stargate (at least as compared to Asgard, Wraith, Ancients, and Ori), it's safe to say that most Stargate tech does indeed 'eat' Star Wars and Star Trek.
The thing is, in my opinion, the goal of any conversion should not be to 'show up' one setting with the power of another, but to find a standard for each and scale them roughly equivalent to one another. For instance, a standard involving Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate, Farscape, Battlestar Galactica, and Babylon 5 might be ISD, Galaxy-Class Explorer, Goa'uld Ha'tak, Peacekeeper Command Carrier, Colonial Battlestar, and Omega-class Destroyer. Now 'roughly equivalent' does NOT mean 'exactly identical in capabilities'. In the aforementioned list, much as it pains me to say so, the Omega would likely be at the bottom of the barrel while the ISD or Ha'tak would be close to the top.
My advice, and it's very much simply MY opinion, is to set your standard, make it unique to its original setting to give it flavor, and then build outwards from there using your standard as your starting point. |
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Firehawk0220
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 151
Location: Dallas, TX.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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I appreciate the PM and I will look over what you have over the next couple of days and throw in my 2 cents. (I am good at that.)
Right now I'd like to address the Stargate technology for a moment.
Lets begin. First off Asgard FTL propulsion is FAR more advanced than either Star Trek or Star Wars can even hope to muster. They can travel the span of whole galaxies and the space in between in a matter of DAYS.
That trumps the Falcon HARD.
As far as beam weapons, again the Asgard are scary. Look at what the Asgard ships can do to Goa'uld ships. Utterly disintegrate them. There is an episode in the first Season, "Thors Chariot" in which an Asgard mothership comes down and using a weapon that I can only assume is similar to the Asgard beaming technology, litterally causes the Goa'uld ship and soldiers to dissappear in SECONDS. Now thats power.
Look at the Stargate itself. Able to transport instantaneously from one Galaxy or one planet to another regardless of distance in less time than it takes you or I to walk from the living room to the fridge. Again almost nothing else in Sci-Fi can compare.
There are even more comparisons to draw from the universe. Take for example the Ancient Drone missle/weapons. They are capable of explosions that are basically grenade size, to explosions capable of doing SERIOUS damage to a Goa'uld mothership. Look at Anubis's flagship which was rediculously large compared to even most Star Wars ships. In seconds that ship was ripped apart by the golden squid drone missle thingy's and that was all she wrote for that invasion.
Their beaming technology seems to work faster and easier than Star Trek's but at about the same distance. Which I find odd considering the advanced medical, propulsion and military technologies they posess.
Their ability to clone, replicate and do other things is astounding in all areas. The ancients and the Asgard alike are really something. Atlantis itself is a wonder. Its powerful with a fraction of energy delivered by the single Zero Point Module (ZPM) that the city has. When fully powered I am sure that Atlantis would surpass EVERYTHING seen in Stargate in power and abilities.
I'll go over the Star Trek vs. Star Wars stats like I said. I'll let you know what I think and why. It will be over the next couple of days, I have an article due this week and some other work to do which will take most of my "free" time through Saturday. |
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worfbacca
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:14 am Post subject: FINALLY THE WEBSITE IS UP |
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Hey guys, I just want you to know I have finished the stats for the Federation ships as well as an ISD. None of the other links work yet. I'm hoping to get a bunch more ships up ASAP.
ENJOY and tell me what you think! Obviously there might be "game" terminology that will be coming later...I've been working on a video game and board game/RPG simulation of the material. Enjoy! Please let me know what you think!!
http://c-67-166-97-11.hsd1.ut.comcast.net:8080/ships/ships.htm
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'm loading a blank page.
Which is a step above the missing pages from the prior links 
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worfbacca
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: The website |
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| Ankhanu wrote: | I'm loading a blank page.
Which is a step above the missing pages from the prior links |
I'm only running iis so I'm limited to 10 connections at a time. It has been working through out the day.. Try again.. LOL someone complained because the isd's shield were only "100" times more power full than the enterprise.
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