Melee Combat Rules

[Camero]

The rules always seem a bit fuzzy to me. In melee combat between two people you have opposing roles. So do does one guy just roll his melee and if it is higher the than the other guys roll for melee parry then he hits him? What roll does the difficulty rating of the weapon have? Say you have to average joes with 3d on melee and melee parry. If they were thrown into a gladiators ring and one had a club with a very easy difficulty rating and the other had fencing foil or something with a moderate difficulty rating how does that work in to the combat? The guy with the club rolls an 8 (passes the very easy rating) and the guy with the foil rolls a 9 (higher than the 8 but lower than the difficulty rating of the weapon). Do you subtract the difficulty rating of the weapon from the roll giving the club guy a 3 and the foil guy a -6, so the club guy wins OR does the foil guy win because 9 is higher than 8. I am just trying to figure out if difficutly ratings play into opposed rolls or just unopposed rolls.

I remember a similar arguement between players over blaster rules, with one guy using a blaster rifle (at his close range) and someone using a hold out blaster at its med or long range and fighting over what to do with the differing difficulties in the ranges and how to work that into the rolls.

I would very much like the any clarifications actual rules or even ways you've decided to make it work. Thanks
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[Ray]

The difficulty subtracts from the rolls when using the weapon.

Example: Crunch is using a Force Pike against a Thug that has a Vibrodagger. The difficulty for the Force Pike is Moderate (11), and the Vibrodagger is Easy (6).

Crunch, as usual, wins initiative. He thrusts forwards with his favorite Force Pike, and rolls a 26. The Thug rolls a 20 to parry the blow.

However, with the difficulty, Crunch's roll turns into a 15 (26 - 11 = 15), not good enough to hit the Thug... Save that the thug also has to difficulty. His difficulty makes his parry a 14 (20 - 6 = 14).

Crunch's thurst is almost parried, but the tip of the Force Pike strikes true, and the stun charge hits the Thug, and knocks him out. Of course, this is actually bad luck for the Thug, because Oota, the Insane Rodian is going to be doing the interrogation. Would have been kinder to have the Pike on kill.

At least, that's how my group has done it.

[garhkal]

[Gry Sarth]

Yeah, I don't believe I ever saw a rule saying that you subtract the difficulty from your role. As I see it, the difficulty is like a weapons range: It's the number you have to beat if the person doesn't parry or dodge out of the way, the base difficulty.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Ray]

Like I said, that's how my GM intereperated the rules. So that's how we played.

[Gry Sarth]

Oh, that's alright then. I think it does make sense, I was just stating that it's not the official rules.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Tahlorn]

Ray- the way your GM runs it is greatly penalizing everyone. As stated before, the rule in the books is that you need to beat the difficulty first, and if you do, then you go to the opposed roll. According to how your GM runs it, someone with some combat training, say a 4d melee combat, would be on an even playing field with someone that had only a 1d dodge when using a force pike. The difficulty number shows that training is required, not that it is hard to wield even by a master.

Let us assume average rolls (2d = 7). I have been trained to use a rapier, and am equivelant a 4d+1. I want to thrust my blade into Joe Shmoe (2d everything), holding a stick. Let us assume mod diff for rapier, and no diff for stick. I lose 8 right off the bat, making me effectively 2d. And now we are even. Seems like an unfair penalty.

Apologies if I am being redundant. If it works for your group, go for it, but I am gibing my opinion.

~Tahlorn

[Boomer]

For me, the weapon difficulty is base difficulty to use, adjusted by familiarity with the item.
Have a specialization reduces the difficulty.
Not having the skill at all increases the difficulty.

As long as you make the difficulty you are using the weapon properly.
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[Camero]

Forgive my ingnorance but it has been years since I played and am just trying to get back into it.

Rays description of the subtraction of the difficulties makes sense to me because if two 2d joe blows have a battle the guy with the easier weapon to use is more likely to hit.

Garhkal's description seems like a clearer version of the rulebooks hazzy way BUT it seems to assume that there is not difficulty to use your melee weapon to parry... and while that simplifies things it makes me wonder if there is a better way

While Tahlorn makes a good point he is assuming that a stick has zero difficulty when in reality a club (just a big stick) is a very easy diff so there is a diff of lets say 3. Using the numbers he put out the both roll average and if we drop Tahlorns difficulty to easy because he would have specialized in Rapier then he wins by 3. (dropping the diff to easy, which in my Revised GM Screen is an average of 8 is strangely what Tahlorn said was the difficulty when it was Moderate - am I missing something or did he mis-type?)

Boomer's comment about making the difficulty means you are using the weapon "properly" seem to me to indicate that it is what you roll over the difficulty that show how "effectively" you are using it - in melee or in parry

In short I like the subtractions with an adjustment for familiarity and specializations, but the Garhkal way (rulebook way) is much simpler even though it ignores the diff of the weapon in parry.

any other ideas how to merge the two?

PS - All your comments are helping me sort this out in my brain, thanks
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"What a wonderful smell you've discovered"