| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
|
 Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:46 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Bren wrote: | | I don't think travel from Sector to Sector will work. That isn't how the hyperspace routes are laid out. They are mapped like a network diagram seeming to go from planet to planet crossing sectors as needed. Some sectors have multiple routes, but also have planets not on a main route. Other sectors don't appear to have any main routes at all. |
Yes, exactly!
Now, I do think that we may make some assumptions about the sectors that we don't have plots/maps for that operate along the lines that crmcneill is suggesting, given that the sector capital is likely to be a hub of some sort.
| Bren wrote: | | Although the main hyperspace routes are mapped like a network diagram, it is not clear that in traveling along a route with say 5 systems, that one necessarily travels from A-B-C-D-E to get from A to E. It often seems in the novels and films that a course can be plotted from A-E directly. |
The way that operates in my brain is that the route goes through B, C, and D, but a spaceship flying along the route does not have to exit hyperspace at any of those points. They can drop out of hyperspace at E, or at any point along the route that they choose to. For example, at Hoth Vader had wanted to exit hyperspace further away from the planet than Admiral Ozzel had decided to do so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bren wrote: | | I don't think travel from Sector to Sector will work. That isn't how the hyperspace routes are laid out. They are mapped like a network diagram seeming to go from planet to planet crossing sectors as needed. Some sectors have multiple routes, but also have planets not on a main route. Other sectors don't appear to have any main routes at all. |
This isn't strictly true. Of the various WEG sector maps, Elrood has a single hyperspace route in and out, Tapani Sector has one route entering from either side of one end of the sector, and the entire Kathol Sector, Outback and Rift are only accessible from the sector capital at Kal'Shebbol. Perhaps multiple hyperspace access routes are the norm for major, well-traveled sectors, but the trunk-and-branch hyperspace map has a definite presence in galactic cartography.
EDIT: In all of these instances, travel in and out of a sector passes through a single point. Any galaxy-wide almanac of hyperspace routes would be greatly simplified if trips from outside the sector were plotted to that access point, then trips within the sector could be calculated on a separate chart.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| crmcneill wrote: | | This isn't strictly true. Of the various WEG sector maps, Elrood has a single hyperspace route in and out, Tapani Sector has one route entering from either side of one end of the sector, and the entire Kathol Sector, Outback and Rift are only accessible from the sector capital at Kal'Shebbol. Perhaps multiple hyperspace access routes are the norm for major, well-traveled sectors, but the trunk-and-branch hyperspace map has a definite presence in galactic cartography. |
This is very true - for Kathol, which is at the very rim, and Elrood, which is like a subdivision off the highway. Tapani actually seems to have three, aside from a secret route out of Canti, which , as a secret route, I wouldn't want to put into the database.
| crmcneill wrote: | | In all of these instances, travel in and out of a sector passes through a single point. Any galaxy-wide almanac of hyperspace routes would be greatly simplified if trips from outside the sector were plotted to that access point, then trips within the sector could be calculated on a separate chart. |
I'm not really certain it would be simpler, because it would mean that I would have to build separate databases, and figure out how these would interact with one another. The network program would account for certain systems being choke-points with respect to those sectors that have been mapped into the data.
I think where your suggestion is useful is for those sectors that have not yet been mapped out, either in the data or by the community. When I map out the major lanes (Corellian Trade Spine, Hydian Way, etc.) I'll at least get the systems that show up on the maps along those lanes. As a GM, you can decide how much longer it takes to go from any of those spots to the backwater system that your PCs are going to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | I'm not really certain it would be simpler, because it would mean that I would have to build separate databases, and figure out how these would interact with one another. The network program would account for certain systems being choke-points with respect to those sectors that have been mapped into the data. |
The thing is, those separate databases already exist, in the form of the maps as published by WEG. I'm not saying you have to do it this way, just presenting the option...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| crmcneill wrote: | | The thing is, those separate databases already exist, in the form of the maps as published by WEG. I'm not saying you have to do it this way, just presenting the option... |
You're quite right - and I plan to base my network data on those maps, including them into the overall network. In that fashion, my testing database has been the Kathol (proper) sector.
I think where this seems difficult is that, in the first instance, it may seem like it would be a lot of work to integrate a sector (a subnetwork) into the entire network. But the network analysis software actually makes that quite easy.
The data that I am using is in the form of an 'edgelist', or a list of dyads. I can always put extra dyads into the database and re-run the shortest-path matrix to give me a new matrix to use.
The problem is the non-mapped sectors. I have a list of some 4400 systems, many of which are assigned to a sector. If we construct a set of general network models for those sectors that can be imposed on them, then it should be quite easy to incorporate all the systems into the overall network as nested sets. The fact that some of them will have identical layouts should not even be noticeable.
Now, if people want to design certain sectors and submit the maps (or the network-data representations of them) to me, I'll happily plug them into the overall database, re-run the matrix and voilą, fully incorporated.
Really, at this point there are two major projects: building a web-interface and collecting the existing data. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
UPDATE
It works!! It's buggy, but it works!!
Okay, so I've enabled it so that I can type in an origin system and a destination system, and it will give me the travel time for the shortest path in the hypperroute network.
I'm thoroughly pleased with myself that I've learned at least this much PhP and MySQL.
Now, as to the bugs:
1) if I type in the origin name wrong, or leave it blank, it returns blank
2) if I type in the destination name wrong, or leave it blank, it gives me a big fat error.
3) I can't use apostrophes in any of the names, like Kal'Shebbol, has to be written: KalShebbol.
Anyway, I've just done this with the Kathol sector alone, just to see if I could get it to work.
So, here are the next challenges:
I'm wondering if anyone is willing to help out with this.
1) Entering more network data
This really isn't so hard. Excel files will work. PM me if you want to help out. I offer the adopt-a-sector program!
2) Finding hosting with Php and MYSQL.
Unfortunately, my own hosting package (home.comcast.net) doesn't offer these fairly trivial technologies. Does anyone have any webspace out there they want to share with me?
Here's a taste of my visual
(because I can only host .html (and not .php) it will not work, and the links will be dead. However, as I build on it further, I will make the .html visuals available.)
3) de-bugging
If anyone is any good at code, I'd love some help, because I just did this reading an on-line tutorial. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Okay, so, it looks like the number two challenge may have been solved. More news to follow on that.
As to data entry, I now have entered:
All of Kathol - including the Outback and the Rift
Rimma Trade Route
Hydian Way
Elrood Sector.
So far, that includes 243 hyperroutes with >200 systems.
The interface is also being developed with a comprehensive list of sectors, some of which will have their own page with maps that will link into the astrogation engine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JT Swift
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Austin Texas
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JT Swift wrote: | | So any updates on this? |
Yes, I have a working model. It is, however, still buggy and incomplete at the moment. You can check it out on the D6Holocron, that's been generous in offering me webspace to host it.
http://d6holocron.com/astrogation/Index.php
I have 1413 systems with 1629 direct connections plotted.
Don't try any systems with apostrophes and don't bother looking at the sector lists, but the rest should work. If it doesn't, please let me know. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JT Swift
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Austin Texas
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JT Swift wrote: | So how would I use it to find the travel time from Naboo to Tatooine?
Or does it not do that yet? |
It does - type Naboo into the origin box and Tatooine into the destination box, set your hyperdrive multiplier and hit enter.
This gives a travel time of 71.5 hours (nearly 3 days) with a class 1 hyperdrive. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JT Swift
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Austin Texas
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I see the problem. Internet Explorer won't show the destination or Hyperdrive input windows.
But when I used Fire Fox if works fine!
Thanks. I will be using this A LOT!!
_________________
- J.T. Swift
For Everything about the TARDIS check out
http://www.whoniverse.net/tardis/
For all things Gallifreyan check out
http://meshyfish.com/~roo/index.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Looks very cool. Any chance of getting it as a downloadable in the future? I don't always have internet access where I game.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JT Swift wrote: | I see the problem. Internet Explorer won't show the destination or Hyperdrive input windows.
But when I used Fire Fox if works fine! |
Oh, right, I don't use IE. It tries to be smarter than the web designer and has funky ways of displaying .html that's written in the standard way. I'm not a pro and writing code (properly) is hard enough just for Firefox.
| JT Swift wrote: | | Thanks. I will be using this A LOT!! |
I'm glad to hear it! If you have workable suggestions (and want to help develop them) then let me know.
| crmcneill wrote: | | Looks very cool. Any chance of getting it as a downloadable in the future? I don't always have internet access where I game. |
It's not impossible, but you'd have to set up a WAMPserver on your machine and install the databases into your MySQL. It's not easy if you're not familiar with this stuff, but it can certainly be done. Let me know if you want to undertake this task and I'll work with you to get it done. Mind you, the engine is far from complete at this stage. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | Let me know if you want to undertake this task and I'll work with you to get it done. Mind you, the engine is far from complete at this stage. |
Way outside my skill-set, but thank you for the offer.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
