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Building a Droid...
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Straxus wrote:
Am I the only one who sees the equipment on templates as "suggestions suitable to the character type, pending GM approval"?


No, I believe that's exactly what I've been promoting.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mind giving Droids certain pieces of add-ons as equipment, so long as they don't grant large inherent bonuses to skills, or get used to counteract weak skills or ones the droid is not programmed with.

I've never had a player who wanted to play a droid, ever, in almost 20 years of playing and running Star Wars. I think it's largely because droids are usually viewed as a "Sidekick" character, and all players want to be the star of the show.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I don't mind giving Droids certain pieces of add-ons as equipment, so long as they don't grant large inherent bonuses to skills, or get used to counteract weak skills or ones the droid is not programmed with.

I've never had a player who wanted to play a droid, ever, in almost 20 years of playing and running Star Wars. I think it's largely because droids are usually viewed as a "Sidekick" character, and all players want to be the star of the show.


Over the years, i think i've met only 2 players who EVER were willing to give droid pcs a chance.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree; it's rare to see anyone interested in a droid pc.

Last edited by Zarn on Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tried making a player droid many times. I find the official rules are inadequate.

My house rule for PC droid creation is simple: Treat them like a PC.

Specifically a human. 18D Attribute dice, 7D Skill dice. All attributes are 2D minimum, 4D Maximum.

I treat attachments like gear. Make sure each player get roughly the same amount of stat boosts from their gear as the other players do.

If you want to use the official droid creation rules, good luck!
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
I've tried making a player droid many times. I find the official rules are inadequate.

My house rule for PC droid creation is simple: Treat them like a PC.

Specifically a human. 18D Attribute dice, 7D Skill dice. All attributes are 2D minimum, 4D Maximum.

I treat attachments like gear. Make sure each player get roughly the same amount of stat boosts from their gear as the other players do.

If you want to use the official droid creation rules, good luck!


You know, what if we switched that up?

Droids are built with 7D attribute Dice, and 18D skill dice. This would make the default droid pretty generally lousy at most things (1D attributes), but of average competence in one area (2D attribute), and with a lot of specialized knowledge (18D skill dice).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
I've tried making a player droid many times. I find the official rules are inadequate.

My house rule for PC droid creation is simple: Treat them like a PC.

Specifically a human. 18D Attribute dice, 7D Skill dice. All attributes are 2D minimum, 4D Maximum.

I treat attachments like gear. Make sure each player get roughly the same amount of stat boosts from their gear as the other players do.

If you want to use the official droid creation rules, good luck!

Seconded. A droid PC is going to be an exceptional droid anyway.

Again, I recommend the Advantage / Disadvantage system from D6 Space to give it some structure. Attachments that provide bonuses to skills and attributes can be treated like Special Abilities, whereas basic attachments like the saw on an Astromech can be treated as starting equipment.

One thing that might be fun for a Swiss Army Droid like the Astromech is an Omni-Gadget. There was a DC super heroes game a while back that used these for Batman’s utility belt, and he could basically invent a gadget for a specific purpose as needed mid-game. There were limitations and penalties, but it always seemed in the films as though Artoo always had some new gadget that did just what he needed it to do at any given moment. That could be a fun incentive for an Astromech character.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
I've tried making a player droid many times. I find the official rules are inadequate.

My house rule for PC droid creation is simple: Treat them like a PC.

Specifically a human. 18D Attribute dice, 7D Skill dice. All attributes are 2D minimum, 4D Maximum.

I treat attachments like gear. Make sure each player get roughly the same amount of stat boosts from their gear as the other players do.

If you want to use the official droid creation rules, good luck!

Right on!

MrNexx wrote:
You know, what if we switched that up?

Droids are built with 7D attribute Dice, and 18D skill dice. This would make the default droid pretty generally lousy at most things (1D attributes), but of average competence in one area (2D attribute), and with a lot of specialized knowledge (18D skill dice).

A whole lotta nope to this! IMO, attribute dice and skill dice should not be equated (including being reversed).

CRMcNeill wrote:
Seconded. A droid PC is going to be an exceptional droid anyway.

Thirded!

CRMcNeill wrote:
Again, I recommend the Advantage / Disadvantage system from D6 Space to give it some structure. Attachments that provide bonuses to skills and attributes can be treated like Special Abilities, whereas basic attachments like the saw on an Astromech can be treated as starting equipment.

One thing that might be fun for a Swiss Army Droid like the Astromech is an Omni-Gadget. There was a DC super heroes game a while back that used these for Batman’s utility belt, and he could basically invent a gadget for a specific purpose as needed mid-game. There were limitations and penalties, but it always seemed in the films as though Artoo always had some new gadget that did just what he needed it to do at any given moment. That could be a fun incentive for an Astromech character.

Good ideas!
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
I've tried making a player droid many times. I find the official rules are inadequate.

My house rule for PC droid creation is simple: Treat them like a PC.

Specifically a human. 18D Attribute dice, 7D Skill dice. All attributes are 2D minimum, 4D Maximum.

I treat attachments like gear. Make sure each player get roughly the same amount of stat boosts from their gear as the other players do.

If you want to use the official droid creation rules, good luck!


If you decide to use this method, I recommend not allowing your PC droid to use software, aka skillware, to improve skills. This has the potential to seriously unbalance the game. I tell my players that this droids advanced brain is incompatible with standard skillware.

The advantage to being a droid is that you don't need to eat or breathe, you can survive in space without a suit, and you can always be repaired even after your character 'dies.'

The disadvantage to playing a droid is that you can not heal naturally. You must be repaired. Also, you may be owned and society tends to treat you like property.
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dph
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spot on Krytoss.

I've had a few Droid characters over the years in my games from Assassin to Probe Droids. The standard rules can work but I found it easier to do just as you did and treat them as a PC.

They pick a core model, I come up with Attribute Min/Max based on the flavour of the design and they get standard 18/7D.
I let them have as many attachments from the core model as I think is 'fair' in balance with the other PCs or even appropriate attachments to the new concept.

My most recent player was a Labor Droid that had been modified by criminals to slice so he got a scomp link/data access attachment in his finger!

No Force points, repair not heal and upgrades skills with CPs.

Kytross wrote:
I've tried making a player droid many times. I find the official rules are inadequate.

My house rule for PC droid creation is simple: Treat them like a PC.

Specifically a human. 18D Attribute dice, 7D Skill dice. All attributes are 2D minimum, 4D Maximum.

I treat attachments like gear. Make sure each player get roughly the same amount of stat boosts from their gear as the other players do.

If you want to use the official droid creation rules, good luck!

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ClaytonH
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not allow droids as main characters in my campaigns. My old ones (mid 90's) I think I tried then cut that off. I treat them as pets. As a GM you are somewhat dissuaded from destroying a properly roleplayed or a player who asymmetrically uses their "pet"as opposed to just some disposable object that costs the player money.


The Star Wars universe has had several examples of how/why sentient droids where a bad idea and are shunned.

Droids are for the most part universally disliked unless it is "your" droid. Droids that are servant class do not have the ability to defend themselves let alone others and those are the only droids that are really acceptable in mixed company or in public. That is why all of the droids with blaster skill are illegal or require extra special permits.

Most of the time throughout the books ('79-03'ish) they had to leave the droids on their ships. How easy is it to program droids to act normal then have them just murder somebody, or anybody given the proper trigger. They also explained that the droid armies of the clone wars did not leave droids with a shining reputation. How moral is it that a programed inorganic can kill organics? They cannot understand life or its value they are just produced and programed.

The empire used some military droids but few and their experiments with assassin droids resulted in them making them illegal.

Some droids made the "leap" to personality (like r2 and c3po) because of never having maintenance or having such clumsy maintenance performed the bugs effectively gave them an evolutionary advantage. They are heros and I would think the other 9,999 (or more) droids who were treated this way would simply break.

If getting some biological piece of your body replaced with a machine it makes you more evil than before or more susceptible to evil. Which to me says your being human is what gives you your humanity something that cannot be obtained with a program. There just isn't any capacity for empathy.
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Ninja-Bear
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Several years ago I had a buddy who wanted to be a droid. Since I didn’t like the rules at the time, I talked him out of it. He used Cyborged Pirate. Now I regret not working with him to be a droid. The reason? Cause I’m a GM. I allow as much freedom in creating characters as possible.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

MrNexx wrote:
You know, what if we switched that up?

Droids are built with 7D attribute Dice, and 18D skill dice. This would make the default droid pretty generally lousy at most things (1D attributes), but of average competence in one area (2D attribute), and with a lot of specialized knowledge (18D skill dice).

A whole lotta nope to this! IMO, attribute dice and skill dice should not be equated (including being reversed).


It's been a couple of years, but I'm still not following the reasoning on this.

The default rules of Droid creation (R&E p. 236) already conflate them... you take your stock droid, add up the attribute and skill dice, and that's your droid. Anything under 25D, total, can be discretionary, and this system works ok with stock droids. But if someone wants to build their own stock droid, there's not a lot of guidance in R&E.

This is a simple guideline... one that prevents my kind of nonsense, where I have 4D in all attributes and an extra 1D in an attachment that gives me +1D in all ship skills (similar to a 2-1B's bonus with medical skills).
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think I understand your post. I thought the discussion was specifically about making droid PCs. Droid models and individual NPCs don't need game balance. PCs do. You can't equate attribute dice to skill dice for PCs and have any sense of game balance. There is a droid PC template in R&E. It is woefully disabled to other PCs. And the rules allow you to create an OP droid. What simple guideline are you referring to that prevents dropping 24D into attributes?

If you are ok with attributes and skills being equally valued in a pool of total creation dice, then why don't you do that for non-droids too? I feel it makes no sense to have droids be all over the place but non-droids not to be. I don't have droid PCs but I have a version of Shards in droid bodies. In my game, these PCs also have 18D in attributes, and the same number of skill dice as everyone else. It's simple, and it's fair. I would recommend that any GM who has straight droid PCs in their game do the same.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I don't think I understand your post. I thought the discussion was specifically about making droid PCs. Droid models and individual NPCs don't need game balance. PCs do. You can't equate attribute dice to skill dice for PCs and have any sense of game balance. There is a droid PC template in R&E. It is woefully disabled to other PCs. And the rules allow you to create an OP droid. What simple guideline are you referring to that prevents dropping 24D into attributes?

If you are ok with attributes and skills being equally valued in a pool of total creation dice, then why don't you do that for non-droids too? I feel it makes no sense to have droids be all over the place but non-droids not to be. I don't have droid PCs but I have a version of Shards in droid bodies. In my game, these PCs also have 18D in attributes, and the same number of skill dice as everyone else. It's simple, and it's fair. I would recommend that any GM who has straight droid PCs in their game do the same.


The simple guideline I refer to is the one I laid out... Droids being generally 7D attribute and 18D skills, which I agree DOES heavily disadvantage droid characters. As it stands, there's nothing preventing the OP, 4D in everything, Droid, save GM fiat.
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