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Rules for Grenade Launchers
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That1guy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing as how a multishot grenade launcher firing stacked caseless grenades actually exists http://modernfirearms.net/grenade/austr/metal-storm-e.html I don't really see the need for a pump action or any other manual loading/extraction method, just pull the trigger and the next grenade in the stack fires. No need for a bulky magazine because the barrel itself is the magazine.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a bad idea. The actual weapon itself does have some limitations. Most notably that it is a "one use" weapon (with a capacity of 3). We could easily hand wave that for SW, of course.

On the other hand, the OP may like to have this as an option as well as the more "standard" single shot breach loader (or the pump-action launcher that he originally proposed).

FWIW, in reality, there are also drum-fed grenade launchers ("6 shooters") and well as belt-fed grenade launchers that have a capacity of whatever will fit into the ammo can or however much ammo you want to link up into a single belt... and they are full auto, to boot.

In any case, the simplest way to run it (assuming that the GM decides it is even possible to lob the shot over cover AND onto target) would be to require the shooter to make some kind of "guess" about the ballistics (could be a scholar roll or even just a missile weapons roll). On a success, then shooter's attack is made with no modifier and if the roll is successful, then cover/concealment is negated. If the first ballistics roll is a failure (the shooter should not know whether it is or isn't), then the shot misses and scatters according to a modified version of the scatter chart given in RAW.

The reason I say "no modifier" is because the purpose of firing ballistically is to negate cover (which increases the difficulty). By adding a difficulty modifier, we are cancelling out the benefits of firing ballistically.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:

In any case, the simplest way to run it (assuming that the GM decides it is even possible to lob the shot over cover AND onto target) would be to require the shooter to make some kind of "guess" about the ballistics (could be a scholar roll or even just a missile weapons roll). On a success, then shooter's attack is made with no modifier and if the roll is successful, then cover/concealment is negated. If the first ballistics roll is a failure (the shooter should not know whether it is or isn't), then the shot misses and scatters according to a modified version of the scatter chart given in RAW.

The reason I say "no modifier" is because the purpose of firing ballistically is to negate cover (which increases the difficulty). By adding a difficulty modifier, we are cancelling out the benefits of firing ballistically.


Check out my thread on artillery weapons.. IMO that skil me and CRC worked on might fit..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm reminded of the old quip about "almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades (and thermonuclear weapons)."

If I understand correctly, accurately firing a grenade launcher is more difficult that firing, say, a rifle at a target at the same distance. Yet under the the WEG system, a grenade launcher would use the same To Hit Difficulties. This, IMO, is where the "almost" comes into play. Yes, it is harder to hit a target with a grenade launcher, but because close is good enough, the difficulties offset each other.

So, this can go one of two ways...
    1). Design a rule that adds to the Difficulty to hit a target with a grenade launcher, then add in a scatter distance by range bracket, along with a blast radius for each grenade, which will allow GMs to calculate "almost" by the meter.

    2). Come up with something more general and less granular that shifts the grenade's damage up or down based on how well the gunner rolled to hit (which was one of my suggestions over on g's Artillery topic). The downside here is that it makes calculating blast radii for multiple targets less accurate...
On top of that, there would also need to be a way to factor in burst-firing of grenades for AGL weaponry.

Thoughts?
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion: launch the grenade at a specific spot on the ground (where the intended target is standing/parked/etc.).

The difficulty is the same no matter what (for example, the difficulty is the distance divided by 10, minimum of "easy" for the mounted grenade launcher, or, divided by five for the hand-held one).

If a hit is scored, all in the affected area may attempt to dodge according to the rules for grenades (those near the epicenter--within 5m--should have a harder roll than those farther out AND take full damage).

If launching with multiple grenades, I'd say increase the difficulty of the dodge AND the damage of the overall effect to represent shrapnel blasting in a "crossfire" of multiple, overlapping explosions.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm wondering if, for simplicity's sake, it might be easier to roll a grenade attack as a group effect, somewhat like group initiative. Something like treating the group as a single target (of Speeder-Scale, perhaps), then make everyone roll their own Dodge against a single To Hit roll, with Wild Dice used to shift the Damage up or down.

With that, an AGL could be written up with an Auto-Fire rating to represent increased accuracy or damage from barraging a target with multiple rounds.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes: I believe the attack should be a single roll with an area effect.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Yes: I believe the attack should be a single roll with an area effect.

I agree. I just think the current method of grenade scattering and damage-by-blast-radius calculation can be simplified.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, as part of my stat re-write project, I'm coming back around to this. What I'm thinking is the following:
    -Because of the challenges imposed on aiming by the ballistic fire of a grenade launcher, all grenade launchers are treated as Speeder-Scale (or Swoop-Scale under my system), or +2D over Character-Scale. This simulates the added difficulty of estimating the range.

    -The ballistic fire does provide some advantage in that, where the GM feels it is appropriate, a grenade launcher can negate 1D of Cover / Protection by arcing the round over intervening obstacles.

    -For the sake of simplicity, rather than using WEG-standard blast radius rules, I'll be treating grenade launchers as proximity weapons as per this rule.

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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This seems pretty good.

I'll admit: this ballistic thing is hard to solve within the framework of D6.... Shocked Confused

After doing some diagrams, I feel that a really good gunner might be able to negate all of the cover at the expense of firing additional ammo.

By launching several grenades at progressively decreasing trajectories, he can cover a longer/farther area within the limits of the weapon's range (I'm assuming a crew served weapon in this case... a single shot launcher would take too long between shots to cover a wide enough area).

This way, he does not need to know exactly how close or far the target is to his cover, but instead lands several shots one after another that "walk" from the far side of the cover outward. With an auto-launcher, several grenades would be in the air before the first one hit the ground, which would result in a rapid succession of explosions along a linear path, like a daisy chain, almost.

The downside is that he's expending a lot of ammo just to hit one target. Anyway, you might rule that for each additional grenade in the volley, cover is reduced by 1 additional pip or die or whatever, while increasing the difficulty for such a feat as you see fit.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A simpler version would be to just give AGLs an Auto-Fire rating, which can then be added to the Cover reduction. So a full-auto GL can reduce up to 3D of Cover by firing a 20-round burst.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that seems good, but I'd recommend using different quantities for the bursts. Basically, a "20-round burst" on a grenade launcher might be 5 or 6 rounds instead (rate of fire is pretty slow for a grenade launcher, but the blast radius more than compensates since that's one of the ways in which the auto-fire rules are used--to attack an area).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Yeah, that seems good, but I'd recommend using different quantities for the bursts. Basically, a "20-round burst" on a grenade launcher might be 5 or 6 rounds instead (rate of fire is pretty slow for a grenade launcher, but the blast radius more than compensates since that's one of the ways in which the auto-fire rules are used--to attack an area).

I'm not quite sure how to balance that out, though, because it's a blending of two house rules: Auto-Fire and Proximity. Even using the standard Proximity rules, a +1D to accuracy equals out to a likely +3D shift in Damage, all from just firing 4 grenades.

As an aside, I've got an idea in mind for what I'm terming an Assault Grenade Launcher. Small enough to be carried by one man, it'll be in the Light-to-Medium Repeater size range, with what I'm calling a smart-drum magazine. Rather than being a single spiral feed, this drum will be composed of six 4-round magazines arranged in a spiral pattern around a central motorized core. That way, the grenadier can load multiple grenade types into a single launcher without having to swap out drums; all he has to do is select which type of grenade he wants to fire, and the drum automatically rotates to the proper magazine. Stats-wise, it'll have a 1D Auto-Fire rating, as it can clear an entire 4-round mag with a single trigger pull.

And yes, in the real world, it would be a high-tech doohickey with a propensity for jamming or breaking down, but this is Star Wars.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like one of those doohickies used by competitive shotgunners. Check out some youtube of shooters with 20+ round shotgun magazines.
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