The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Playable Species List?
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Gamemasters -> Playable Species List? Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Whill
High Admiral
High Admiral


Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 3562
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, The Whills Universe

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Telsij wrote:
So for Ithorians, the MEC max is 2D and TEC cap is 2D+1.
Momaw Nadon's stats exceed both of these with MEC 2D+1
and TEC 2D+2.

Not too much of an issue obviously as there are always outliers who exceed normal maximums, but has anyone upped the Ithorian ranges?

I wouldn't up the ranges

I wouldn't up the range maxes based on Momar Nadon's stats alone, because both stats suffer from the same lack of stats line editing affecting all WEG stats.

I up the range maxes because Ithorians travel around the galaxy in herd ships. Ithorians are well-travelled and highly knowledgeable traders, which would also give them a wider variety experience with many various technologies. Despite being a nature oriented species, their ships contain living biospheres that still require some level of technological mastery to create and maintain, thus needing a higher Technical max, at least 3D. Well travelled species should tend to have a much higher max Mechanical than 2D, at least 3D+1.

We're talking species attribute range maximums, not average or typical values. For these attributes we are talking about what the best Ithorian pilots and technicians have. The Ithorians represented their entire sector in the Galactic Senate. The Ithorian species would have to have a decent amount of more abled people to become the most important species in their sector.

If a GM feels that he doesn't have the authority to tweak RAW to make it make more sense, then he is a slave to RAW. Break free!

MrNexx wrote:
those are so close to the maximum that it could have been achieved by normal CP improvement.

By the way, Momaw Nadon is an NPC, and NPCs are not likely ever going to earn the CPs needed to increase attributes. The only way NPCs would probably be able to do that is if they are gamemaster controlled characters that adventure with a group of PCs. Most other NPCs are whatever the GM wants them to be at the point they enter the PC's story (with no specific skill dice allocation or CP expenditures. Since Momaw Nadon would just enter a campaign before any adventuring with PCs, his starting stats should reflect the species maximums. If the NPC or species maximums stats don't make sense, then you alter them.
_________________
-
"Would you trade that necklace for a glimpse into your future? ...What do you know of kyber crystals?"

"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill... I'm gonna follow Jyn. Her path is clear."

"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MrNexx
Line Captain
Line Captain


Joined: 26 Mar 2016
Posts: 970
Location: Houston

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

MrNexx wrote:
those are so close to the maximum that it could have been achieved by normal CP improvement.

By the way, Momaw Nadon is an NPC, and NPCs are not likely ever going to earn the CPs needed to increase attributes. The only way NPCs would probably be able to do that is if they are gamemaster controlled characters that adventure with a group of PCs. Most other NPCs are whatever the GM wants them to be at the point they enter the PC's story (with no specific skill dice allocation or CP expenditures. Since Momaw Nadon would just enter a campaign before any adventuring with PCs, his starting stats should reflect the species maximums. If the NPC or species maximums stats don't make sense, then you alter them.


Ehhh... NPCs do and they don't. What their stats might be is a matter of GM fiat, but I feel that the GM should stick close to the established numbers possible for PCs (even if they change those numbers for their own reasons; I agree with your reasoning on Ithorians needing higher attributes for Technical and Mechanical), unless they have a really good reason. But the rules that govern PCs I tend to generally assume also apply to NPCs. Because the rules of the game generally describe what is possible in the world... there can be exceptions, but exceptions should be explained, and large exceptions need greater explanation.

If this NPC exceeds the attribute maximums for the race, well, that's within the rules. I wouldn't bat an eye at an NPC who has a pip or two above the normal attribute maximum for the race. But an NPC that inexplicably has stats well above the established parameters for the race... a human with a 6D strength, with no further note given, for example... is going to raise my eyebrows. The rules of the game allow someone to exceed the racial maximum... in theory, they even allow someone to wildly exceed the racial maximum.
_________________
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude... seeming to be true within the context of [Star Wars].
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
High Admiral
High Admiral


Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 3562
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, The Whills Universe

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't even stating how I do it. I was just pointing out how RAW stats contradict the fluff (and even film canon) they are supposed to live up to. If a GM wants a game universe that makes more sense, he will attempt to reconcile these things. How you do it is up to you. As I suggest, you can tweak the stats. If RAW is the inviolable word of god for a GM, then he can alter the fluff to match the stats but I think that is putting the cart before the horse. Telsij's post that sparked this discussion asked if anyone upped two extremely low Ithorian max attributes so he was speaking to the tinkerer GMs.

In my game, Humans are a "14D species" with 2D+1 as the average attribute. Human attributes maximums are 4D+1. (These things are to better match all the fluff text that describes humans as so great at everything and the reality of human domination throughout the galaxy). In my game, Ithorian max Technical is 3D+2 and max Mechanical is 4D (still lower than human max). All PCs in my game have 18D regardless of typical species stats (So there is no "+6D" for PCs). I also do not have increasing attributes after the initial char gen allocation. The species attribute ranges are value limits for PCs at char gen.

Like in RAW, NPCs in my game do not have any sort of attribute and skill dice number requirements. And I as GM do still have the power to have values outside my species attribute value ranges, but I make the limits such that it would be extremely rare for me to even want to.
_________________
-
"Would you trade that necklace for a glimpse into your future? ...What do you know of kyber crystals?"

"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill... I'm gonna follow Jyn. Her path is clear."

"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
High Admiral
High Admiral


Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 3562
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, The Whills Universe

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:08 am    Post subject: Clawdites Reply with quote

So I've never had a shapeshifter PC and want to add a changling species to the second tier of my allowable PC species list, and I figured I would just stick with the film canon one because AotC is already in my SWU, and I think shapeshifter species should be extremely rare in the galaxy so I don't want to start adding more. I like that it is not easy to change forms and I also want to depower them a bit more than they are in Legends. Of course changing mass is crazy, and I like the limit of not being able to mimic specific individuals, at least not too closely. I think they should have a bone skeletal structure that they can't alter much, so all forms must be humanoid of nearly the same size. They can only increase or decrease their height by a couple centimeters, and changes in bulkiness can't be drastic. They can change color and texture, and even mimic scales, feathers and hair (but not too long feathers or hair). Humanlike sexual dimorphism should be possible. Whatever the goo is in their bodies that makes shapeshifting possible, it can go from gelatinous to cartilaginous and thus it is capable of imitating bony structures and hard skin. I really don't like the idea of even mimicking clothes except for maybe the appearance of a skin-tight body suit (if they are naked). Otherwise new forms would just have the same clothes they already have on, just like in the film. (I can see them having elastic clothes with some give and take to accommodate new forms.)

I'm thinking maybe a Willpower roll to activate a change, the difficulty can vary based the difference and complexity of the new form. To have to maintain concentration to keep a form, I think a -1D MAP penalty affecting all other actions is appropriate. I'm thinking there should be some multiple actions threshold such as if the number of actions exceeds the number in front of the D of the character's Willpower dice code, the character reverts to his natural form? I don't think a wound should automatically make a character revert because Zam Wessel got her arm chopped off and didn't revert. Maybe a wound requires a Willpower roll at -1D to maintain the form? I think falling unconscious should make the character revert.

I was also thinking about maybe having it so a Clawdite has to take time to develop specific forms, so there are only a certain selection of forms to even possibly change into. Maybe starting PCs can start with a number of forms equalling the number in front of the D of their Alien Species dice code? How could the character develop more forms over time?

Should there be an advanced skill for Clawdites to do these things? Maybe one that can be added to Willpower and Alien Species for these rolls? What other abilities should shapeshifting provide? I can see this species being distrusted so they usually "hide" in an altered form when along other species. I'm new to the concept of shapeshifting in the game and just spitballing here. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions for how this would all work while mechanically while staying true to what we see in the film?

Another thing I'm hung up on is how to interpret the part of the movie where Zam briefly shows her true face while Anakin is falling back from the front of the speeder to the back. Could that have been intentional, because she thought he was falling off and wanted to gloat? Did she momentarily get out-mapped and then reestablished the human form hoping that he hadn't noticed?
_________________
-
"Would you trade that necklace for a glimpse into your future? ...What do you know of kyber crystals?"

"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill... I'm gonna follow Jyn. Her path is clear."

"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MrNexx
Line Captain
Line Captain


Joined: 26 Mar 2016
Posts: 970
Location: Houston

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the Legends tab on Wookiepedia, I'd go with something like this:

Clawdite
DEX 2D/4D
KNO 2D/4D
MECH 2D/4D
PER 2D/4D
STR 2D/4D
TECH 2D/4D

Special Abilities:
Hue Shifting: All Clawdites are able to change the color and texture of their skin with relatively little effort. This adds +1D to Sneak checks, but if they are noticed doing so, it is very obvious what they have done. This may also be used to communicate base needs to other clawdites; normally green-to-yellow, a clawdite whose base-form color is brown, red, or white-tinged is likely ill.

Shape-shifting (Knowledge): With concentration, Clawdites may make more radical changes to their form. While they must remain the same general height (within a few centimeters) and their mass is unchanged, they can radically alter their outline, skin texture, and specific facial features. Clawdites find changing forms to be an Easy task if not appearing to be a specific, real, member of a species; it is Moderate to Difficult to shift into the appearance of a specific person (depending on how closely they are able to study that person). Spotting a disguised clawdite as a clawdite requires a successful Con check against the Clawdite's Shape-shifting roll+10. Checks that fail by less than 10 will indicate that something is off if a specific individual is being impersonated, but not reveal a Clawdite disguised as a fictive person.
Most Clawdites changing form into a different species will develop specific identities and personalities in those forms; Zam Wessel, when disguised as a human, tended to look like the same human every time, though it was not necessary. Some Clawdites specialize their Shape-shifting skill into specific individuals (real or invented by the Clawdite themselves); if a Clawdite achieves 5D or higher in a specific identity specialization, they no longer receive a multi-action penalty for being shape-shifted into that form.
Relying on Shape-shifting for disguise does have its drawbacks. Changing to a non-Clawdite form requires one round, a successful Disguise check, and inflicts a Stun upon the Clawdite. Maintaining a non-Clawdite form requires a modicum of concentration, and inflicts a multi-action penalty on the Clawdite so long as it is maintained. Shifting back to their natural, Clawdite, form is instant, and does not inflict a Stun.
Whenever the shapeshifted Clawdite is Stunned, Wounded, or more severely injured, they must make a successful Stamina or Willpower roll against the damage inflicted or lose their disguise; a complication on an otherwise successful roll indicates that their disguise briefly failed, allowing their disguise to be noticed with a Moderate Perception check. Likewise, shape-changing only alters the Clawdite themselves; it cannot alter clothing, equipment, or truly add or subtract limbs or digits (though they may create limp or useless facsimilies of extra limbs or digits, within their mass; thus, for example, they might imitate twi'lek lekku, but be unable to move them). Clawdites who intend to infiltrate other societies frequently learn more conventional methods of disguise to supplement their impressive natural abilities.
If impersonating a specific, real, person, Con may be necessary to reproduce mannerisms; a clawdite might relatively easily LOOK like Han Solo, but an inability to understand Wookie (or a humble demeanor) might inform anyone who knows the smuggler that something is up. A Clawdite looking like a person they invented has no such need... just because Zam Wessel is acting oddly for a human does not mean they are acting oddly for Zam Wessel.
_________________
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude... seeming to be true within the context of [Star Wars].
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
High Admiral
High Admiral


Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 3562
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, The Whills Universe

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Thanks for the inspiration, Nexx!
_________________
-
"Would you trade that necklace for a glimpse into your future? ...What do you know of kyber crystals?"

"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill... I'm gonna follow Jyn. Her path is clear."

"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MrNexx
Line Captain
Line Captain


Joined: 26 Mar 2016
Posts: 970
Location: Houston

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks; I didn't specifically include it, but I assume, like you do, that being killed will end the disguise. I don't know if being knocked unconscious should, though... I don't recall screen evidence either way, but I think it would be difficult to successfully hide as a clawdite if you were unable to sleep without losing form.
_________________
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude... seeming to be true within the context of [Star Wars].
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
High Admiral
High Admiral


Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 3562
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, The Whills Universe

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Thanks; I didn't specifically include it, but I assume, like you do, that being killed will end the disguise.

Right. Killed is unconscious and then some, and we have screen evidence of that when Zam died.

MrNexx wrote:
I don't know if being knocked unconscious should, though... I don't recall screen evidence either way, but I think it would be difficult to successfully hide as a clawdite if you were unable to sleep without losing form.

The species fluff emphasized the concentration needed to maintain shifted forms, pointing out that being hurt or distracted could cause them to revert to the natural form. That's where I got the MAP penalty and wound ideas from. And I like the concentration requirement because I don't want it to be easy. I like them reverting when unconscious because it shouldn't be easy to hide being a shapeshifter in the long term.

While we don't have direct film evidence supporting that, we do have two pieces of evidence that support that indirectly. There is the part where she momentarily reverts when Anakin is on her speeder. If she couldn't completely maintain it when consciously wanting to, it would seem to be even more difficult to maintain when unconscious. And the fact that she reverted when she died suggests the effort in shapeshifting is not all in the transformation as if each new form is the new rest form until the next transformation. It suggests there is energy being spent to maintain an altered form, so when there is no longer any intention to remain in that form, the body reverts to its natural state on its own.

I've never had shapeshifting PCs and I fear that if it is too easy and too powerful it could become game breaking. And I don't want the player groups to limit their creativity by depending on 'alternate identity' strategies too much. The need for conscious intention and to maintain concentration to maintain the form seems better to me.
_________________
-
"Would you trade that necklace for a glimpse into your future? ...What do you know of kyber crystals?"

"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill... I'm gonna follow Jyn. Her path is clear."

"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Gamemasters All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Page 8 of 8

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0