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Shiny New Fleet
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Shiny New Fleet Reply with quote

It occurs to me that the Imperial Navy, under Emperor Palpatine, is a relatively new fleet with bright, shiny, new equipment. There are no or few 50 year old aging warships out there in service.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, yes. Depending on what continuity you're looking at, of course.

If one allows the existence of technology like the World Devastators - or for that matter, the city block-eating Coruscant droid (EVS construction droid) - then you're looking at an interesting situation: It might actually be more cost efficient to completely reconstruct rather than repair badly damaged starships or obsolete equipment.

The World Devastators we see are pretty much fully automated molecular furnaces. Given the relatively small size of the 'infant' World Devastators, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to consider the existence of larger, but perhaps more crude molecular forges in the KDY orbital shipyards - or other shipyards.

Which means that it might actually be an example of the lack of supporting infrastructure on the part of the Rebels that they try repairing stuff, and one more puzzle piece why the Empire seems to have a more ... disposable attitude to soldiers, TIE fighters, and so on and so forth - to some extent, they ARE disposable because the manufacturing capacity is very high given enough raw materials.

So in the long run, sending even large ships like the Victory or the Imp I or IIs to the breakers in order to produce new ships may actually be cost efficient - for the Empire.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking of just the films.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By that standard, the Imperial Fleet is also composed of nothing but Star Destroyers.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
By that standard, the Imperial Fleet is also composed of nothing but Star Destroyers.
And TIE fighters. You can't forget the TIE fighters. Laughing
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the occasional Lambda class shuttle and TIE Shuttle. But other than that, pretty meagre, yeah.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going just off what we see in the films is a keyhole approach; we're going to see some of what the Empire has, but certainly not all of it. However, it's not as though WEG has done a good job filling in the gaps. Much of what we see in the Imperial SB, for example, is older model ships that would be more likely to be encountered in the sorts of backwaters that characters tend to frequent. Other ships are mentioned or hinted at, but no stats are provided. I've posted a few stats of my own over the years to try to fill the gaps.

IMO, the Imperial Fleet's ship roster breaks down into roughly three different groups:
    1). Clone Wars era ships, such as the Venator, Victory, Dreadnought Cruiser, Carrack Cruiser, which are generally posted in lower-priority areas, or are maintained in service because their design makes them the best fit for the modern mission (the Carrack's speed and durability makes it ideal for the Navy's Pursuit missions).

    2). First-Wave Imperial ships, such as the ISD I and the Strike Cruiser, which are part of the Empire's initial post-war expansion.

    3). Second-Wave Imperial ships, fielded in response to the shifting nature of warfare in the Rebellion Era, such as the Imperial II, Nebulon B, Lancer and Escort Carrier.

The Second-Wave Imperial Ships are going to be the "shiny new fleet" in question. It's not that the other ships don't exist; it's that they are "holding down the fort" in other areas while their flashier younger siblings get the screen time.
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been working under the assumption that the Venator class cruisers were brought back to the shipyards and retooled into Imperial Star Destroyers. They are the same length and have similar superstructure
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
I have been working under the assumption that the Venator class cruisers were brought back to the shipyards and retooled into Imperial Star Destroyers. They are the same length and have similar superstructure

I don't know where you got that information, but it is demonstrably false. The length given in the cross-section book is 1,137 meters (463 less than the ISD) and its superstructure is distinctly different.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Shiny New Fleet Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
It occurs to me that the Imperial Navy, under Emperor Palpatine, is a relatively new fleet with bright, shiny, new equipment. There are no or few 50 year old aging warships out there in service.
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
I was thinking of just the films.

Of course, the real world reason for this is because Lucas chose to create new ships for the prequels, instead of just using the same ships which would then be showing that the ships in the classic trilogy were aging. I think it would have been quite boring so I am glad the prequels had different ships. The previously unseen older ships in the prequels then begs the question, where are all these ship now in the time of the Empire...

CRMcNeill wrote:
Going just off what we see in the films is a keyhole approach; we're going to see some of what the Empire has, but certainly not all of it. However, it's not as though WEG has done a good job filling in the gaps. Much of what we see in the Imperial SB, for example, is older model ships that would be more likely to be encountered in the sorts of backwaters that characters tend to frequent. Other ships are mentioned or hinted at, but no stats are provided. I've posted a few stats of my own over the years to try to fill the gaps.

IMO, the Imperial Fleet's ship roster breaks down into roughly three different groups:
    1). Clone Wars era ships, such as the Venator, Victory, Dreadnought Cruiser, Carrack Cruiser, which are generally posted in lower-priority areas, or are maintained in service because their design makes them the best fit for the modern mission (the Carrack's speed and durability makes it ideal for the Navy's Pursuit missions).

    2). First-Wave Imperial ships, such as the ISD I and the Strike Cruiser, which are part of the Empire's initial post-war expansion.

    3). Second-Wave Imperial ships, fielded in response to the shifting nature of warfare in the Rebellion Era, such as the Imperial II, Nebulon B, Lancer and Escort Carrier.
The Second-Wave Imperial Ships are going to be the "shiny new fleet" in question. It's not that the other ships don't exist; it's that they are "holding down the fort" in other areas while their flashier younger siblings get the screen time.

I completely agree with all of this and don't have much to add. The classic films do indeed show the Empire through a keyhole. It's a BIIIG galaxy and there is plenty of room for aging prequel ships to still exist in the galaxy offscreen. The prequels were great for world building. Some separatist ships could became rebel ships. Some republic ships could became imperial ships.
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Kytross wrote:
I have been working under the assumption that the Venator class cruisers were brought back to the shipyards and retooled into Imperial Star Destroyers. They are the same length and have similar superstructure

I don't know where you got that information, but it is demonstrably false. The length given in the cross-section book is 1,137 meters (463 less than the ISD) and its superstructure is distinctly different.


I made it up. Years ago. It made a lot of sense.

At the time I had a source, probably wookieepedia, that put them at the same length or closer in length. Putting that with the change from carrier ships to battle ships from the Clone Wars to the Galactic Civil War, it made sense that the Venators would be brought in for refits. Still does, actually. Get rid of all that hanger space, put in bigger generators, better shields, and more guns.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer the aging warships serving in the Empire, so in my SWU there are still some Venators in the time of the classic trilogy.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I prefer the aging warships serving in the Empire, so in my SWU there are still some Venators in the time of the classic trilogy.

By the time of the classic trilogy, a lot of the Acclamators from AOTC had been converted to armed cargo transports. With the Empire's shift away from starfighter doctrine, older Venators could very easily be converted to division-level fast assault transports.
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RedKnight
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

or ferrying tie squadrons between planetary/sector assignments and transporting heavy equipment - that middle bay is just immense cargo space if you dont plan to launch fighters from it.
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or sent out as/is as a part of fleets to the various galactic hinterlands similar to the way Thrawn was.
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