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Exterior Transportation Modules
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Exterior Transportation Modules Reply with quote

In the Poe Dameron comic, I saw an interesting answer to the problem of a fighter and several people that need to be taking off world.

Poe has his single seat black X-Wing. With him are three droids: BB-8, C-3PO, and another droid.

Poe slips into the pilot seat. BB-8 fits into his socket, and C-3PO and the other droid are placed in these coffin-like modules. They're about two meters long. Picture a cylinder cut in half, almost like a cryo bed where it is flat on one side and a half moon shape on the other. There's a large window set in the curved part so that if the module is occupied, the person can be seen.

These modules affix to Poe's X-Wing at the primary hull, just above the top S-Foils, behind the top engines.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I can see those things as being very useful for quick single-person extractions, provided the fighter can get on- and off-planet without detection (or arousing suspicion if clearances are needed for more cosmopolitan planets).

Some kind of life-support (as in a breathing mask and a small oxygen tank) is going to be needed for organic beings, though. Otherwise, those cylinders will become quite literal coffins very quickly.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Some kind of life-support (as in a breathing mask and a small oxygen tank) is going to be needed for organic beings, though. Otherwise, those cylinders will become quite literal coffins very quickly.


Yes. Evidently, the ones Poe uses are just containers--not even air tight--as he makes a comment just before their use that if BB-8 is fine when exposed to the vacuum of space, then the other two droids should be too. Poe does communicate with them via the comm.

I get the impression that Poe has some engineer mock up these boxes, with some kind of locking mechanism to the hull, specifically for this mission. They're literally just boxes to carry the droids on the exterior of the craft.

But, why not take it a little further, as you say? Throw in some life support, or have the boxes sealed and connected to the X-Wing's environment system.

In a pinch, you could put human (or being) passengers in space suits, protected further by the metal of the boxes, and stuff the interior of the box with as many air tanks as you can get in there.

Or, you could go all the way, seal the box, connect it to the X-Wing's life support, and have these cozy, detachable covered beds that you can place on the side of your craft--maybe a cryo bed that will put the passenger in a hibernation trance!

Militarily, you could get creative with this, too. Stock a landing shuttle with as many troops as you can, then place as many of these canisters on the hull--dropping more men on one trip to a combat zone.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
...provided the fighter can get on- and off-planet without detection (or arousing suspicion if clearances are needed for more cosmopolitan planets).


I often wonder about this. We usually see worlds in the SW universe that have no early warning system at all. Those guys on Jakku seemed to have no warning at all that the First Order was landing. When Obi-wan landed on Geonosis, he seemed to park and go in unnoticed.

Star Wars tech seems to be too advanced for the use of planetary satellites. I guess their planetary sensors render mechanical satellites useless.

I've often thought about Tatooine, too. It would seem that there are sensors and traffic control for the populated areas, like Mos Eisley. But, if you land in the desert, past the horizon from Mos Eisley's sensors, or on the other side of the planet, in the middle of the desert, can you go completely undetected?

The movies give me the impression that most worlds are akin to small towns in the real world, where anybody can drive in, park, and be in that small town without anybody knowing that they've arrived.

And, the bigger, more populated worlds--or that part of a world that is populated--is more akin to a gated base or community, where the sky and the border are being monitored at all times.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Example of real-world, non-droppable fuel tanks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_fuel_tank

I've also played around with a 'collar', if you will, for Y-wing fighters, that provide a habitat of sorts that can be used during long deployments. Based on the inflatable habitats NASA have been playing with, such as BEAM: https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/space-stations-expandable-habitat

Not something that you will go into battle with deployed around your fighter, but something that you'll keep if you're at station in an asteroid belt and just waiting for the scramble.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
Not something that you will go into battle with deployed around your fighter...


Well, by coincidence, maybe, Poe is shot down in the story while using these pods. It's not clear if the pods have anything to do with it, though.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
...provided the fighter can get on- and off-planet without detection (or arousing suspicion if clearances are needed for more cosmopolitan planets).


Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
I often wonder about this. We usually see worlds in the SW universe that have no early warning system at all. Those guys on Jakku seemed to have no warning at all that the First Order was landing. When Obi-wan landed on Geonosis, he seemed to park and go in unnoticed.

Star Wars tech seems to be too advanced for the use of planetary satellites. I guess their planetary sensors render mechanical satellites useless.


Both Jakku and Geonosis are Outer Rim planets, so it's to be expected that they're not going to be as "cosmopolitan" as planets closer to the Core, and so might not possess a thorough sensor grid...but then again, when Obi-Wan landed on Geonosis, it was a major fortress world of the Separatists that had just spent months, if not years, fortifying itself in preparation for the Clone Wars. You're right, Wajeb: Obi-Wan should have been intercepted in short order. Perhaps Obi-Wan was detected on planetary approach and Dooku told the Geonosians to let Obi-Wan land unimpeded so he could capture him? Damn, Dooku must have really wanted to monologue at Kenobi.... But even then, having a Jedi Master as a hostage does have its advantages, so it does make sense they'd let him land when they could just as easily shot him down in short order after Jango Fett failed to take him down.

As for Jakku, it's a strategically worthless planet (it was explicitly said in Lost Stars that the only reason the Battle of Jakku took place there is because that was where the Empire had chosen to make their last stand) and there was no military or government presence of any kind there. It certainly didn't seem to be occupied or garrisoned by the First Order; the few stormtroopers and TIEs we see all came from (or most plausibly came from) the Finalizer, Kylo Ren's flagship. If that's the case, then Jakku, being a backwater planet for both the First Order and The New Republic, it would make sense that it wouldn't have any sort of detection grid or customs agency. Who would bother to construct it, never mind run it, after all?

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
I've often thought about Tatooine, too. It would seem that there are sensors and traffic control for the populated areas, like Mos Eisley. But, if you land in the desert, past the horizon from Mos Eisley's sensors, or on the other side of the planet, in the middle of the desert, can you go completely undetected?


In Legends, Tatooine, at least during the Classic Era, did have a small Imperial garrison according to a few of the WEG books. I don't remember exactly how big it was (a couple dozen stormtroopers, a few officers and maybe 4 scout troopers?) but it was stationed in Mos Eisly and its purview was just Mos Eisly and the immediate environs just to make sure the spaceport functioned smoothly without (undue) interference from the Hutts.

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
The movies give me the impression that most worlds are akin to small towns in the real world, where anybody can drive in, park, and be in that small town without anybody knowing that they've arrived.


Again, it depends on how strategically important, isolated/accessible and (under)populated the planet is. But it's an apt enough analogy.

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
And, the bigger, more populated worlds--or that part of a world that is populated--is more akin to a gated base or community, where the sky and the border are being monitored at all times.


I just started reading Rebel Rising, the book about Jyn's years between being rescued by Saw at Lah'mu and the Rebels rescuing her at Wobani. This book has great details about the complexities of trying to get on- and off-planet while trying to avoid the notice of the Empire. Jyn became an expert at slicing and creating false starship codes that could get Saw's shuttle onto Imperial controlled planets without arousing suspicion. When Saw abandons her on a planet called Tamsye Prime during a mission gone wrong (this is when Jyn had to hide out in that bunker with only a blaster and a knife), Jyn has to find a way off the planet before the Star Destroyer in orbit glasses the planet because its factories are no longer useful for making Death Star components. She forges an Imperial starship clearance code, finds a civilian pilot who is also trying to flee the planet banging on the locked hatch of a Lambda shuttle at the starport and tells him to fly the shuttle that Saw and her had smuggled themselves in on. When he objects that the Star Destroyer will shoot down anything non-Imperial, she tells him that she forged an Imp clearance code. They managed to get away in a non-Imperial ship because she had forged the code so well that the ImpStar didn't even bother sending a TIE patrol to visually confirm what Jyn's code told them: an Imperial shuttle was leaving the planet before it was about to be bombarded. After the pilot drops off Jyn at a nearby planet (Jyn doesn't even get to learn the name of this planet), she does the same thing again after finagling her way onto a light freighter when the freighter is about to land on Skuhl, the freighter captain's homeworld. The captain had fallen behind on her ship license payments and Jyn forged the data to make the captain's payments look up to date so the Imperials wouldn't have to do a snap inspection of the freighter and could land on Skuhl unimpeded.

Of course, this sort of security is not always in place on every planet, but if the Empire has any interest in a planet, it will eventually build up some sort of orbital/planetary security. But yes, if you want some in-universe examples of how planetary security works in the Star Wars universe, Rebel Rising provides more than a few.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Both Jakku and Geonosis are Outer Rim planets, so it's to be expected that they're not going to be as "cosmopolitan" as planets closer to the Core, and so might not possess a thorough sensor grid...but then again, when Obi-Wan landed on Geonosis, it was a major fortress world of the Separatists that had just spent months, if not years, fortifying itself in preparation for the Clone Wars.


Don't forget that Geonosis had several battleships grounded, too, and we know that they have sensors.

Which would make me wonder: Does Obi-wan's craft have some sort of stealth technology that was just not shown in the film? It was a Jedi Order vehicle, so it may have some top military grade equipment.

Jango seems to engage him OK, during their battle, though, so it's confusing.

Cassian seems to get to Eadu without detection, too.





Quote:
I just started reading Rebel Rising, the book about Jyn's years between being rescued by Saw at Lah'mu and the Rebels rescuing her at Wobani.


How's the book? I'm very interested in listening to it, but I haven't gotten around to that one yet. I'm listening to Tarkin at the moment.

Do you recommend it?

FWIW, I did not like Catalyst at all. It bored me. But, I found the novelization to Rogue One one of the best audio productions that I've ever heard.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't think I would enjoy Rebel Rising; I only bought it for researching Wobani planet stats and write-up for the Womp Rat Press Rogue One fanbook. But it's actually a decent read.

In the Rogue One novelization, it's mentioned several times before Jyn gets to Eadu that she hates (or at least is very upset with) Galen and I never really understood why because she saw for herself that Galen was captured by Krennic. But as I read this book, I began to understand that Jyn is dealing with some serious abandonment issues (not that that wasn't obvious before), and she got it into her head that Galen went with Krennic willingly. Then again, she was only 8 years old and was dealing with the trauma of just having seen her mother shot down like a dog in front of her.

And her abandonment issues only get worse when Saw abandons her during a recon mission gone wrong.

I think there might be some continuity issues between Rebel Rising and Star Wars: Rebels, though. During the mission when Saw is forced to abandon Jyn, he suffers some serious (as in, Blood From The Mouth serious) injuries, hinting that the breathing apparatus he wears in Rogue One is the apparent result of this mission. But when Saw appears in the Third Season of Rebels, he's not wearing any sort of life- support apparatus or suffering from any seemingly permanent injuries. (Hell, he's not even breathing hard during that two-parter!) Granted, we don't actually see Saw again in the rest of Rebel Rising after he abandons Jyn, so he might well have recovered from his injuries at Tamsye Prime and suffered the grievous injuries requiring his life support armor much later (at least as late as 1 BBY if we see Saw get injured in Season 4 of Rebels) and all this is probably Wild Mass Guessing on my part.

I'm only about halfway into the book, but I like what I read so far. I still have to find out how Jyn winds up at Wobani, but there are interlude chapters scattered through the book detailing Jyn's time at Wobani and how the list of charges against her when she was first imprisoned (which was just "forgery of Imperial documents" and "resisting arrest") keeps getting longer as she continues her imprisonment on Wobani. Needless to say, the Wobani prison camp isn't nicknamed "Elegy" for nothing.

Wajeb, I think I remember hearing that Tarkin was originally Legends but was canonized after Disney bought LucasArts. Is that right, or was it always canon? I have it as part of the "Rise of the Empire" omnibus which also includes "New Dawn," the first meeting of Kanan Jarrus and Hera Syndulla, but I haven't gotten around to reading either yet.

And I have to see if I can get the Rogue One audiobook as well.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Wajeb, I think I remember hearing that Tarkin was originally Legends but was canonized after Disney bought LucasArts. Is that right, or was it always canon?


I'm not sure. I actually was surprised to see it was considered canon, since it was written before Rogue One. So far, there seems to be one issue that doesn't add up--the Death Star's laser isn't installed yet, but Tarkin seems to be involved. And, of course, there's no mention of Krennic.

It's too early to tell. I'm in the early chapters, and what they've said so far could fit with Rogue One, as the movie and book showed that Tarkin had his eye on the project from afar for a long time.

We'll see.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
Wajeb, I think I remember hearing that Tarkin was originally Legends but was canonized after Disney bought LucasArts. Is that right, or was it always canon?

I'm not sure. I actually was surprised to see it was considered canon, since it was written before Rogue One. So far, there seems to be one issue that doesn't add up--the Death Star's laser isn't installed yet, but Tarkin seems to be involved. And, of course, there's no mention of Krennic.

It's too early to tell. I'm in the early chapters, and what they've said so far could fit with Rogue One, as the movie and book showed that Tarkin had his eye on the project from afar for a long time.

Tarkin was announced on the same day as the canon reboot, April 24th, 2014. The first manuscript was submitted by the author to the Story Group by May 5th. If it was ever going to be a Legends book that would have been completely behind the scenes. You may be thinking of Heir to the Jedi which was originally going to be a EU book.

Quote:
I will tell him that I will be taking control over the weapon that I first spoke of years ago effective immediately.

Tarkin was at the end of Revenge of the Sith watching the Death Star being constructed over Geonosis. Tarkin was involved with the Death Star since not long after Palpatine took control of it during the Clone War. Tarkin was involved before Krennik was. There are several things canon that were written before Rogue One.

If it may be helpful, according to my research this is the chronology:

22-17 BBY - Catalyst
14 BBY - Tarkin
13 BBY - Rogue One prologue

I don't know anything about that Jyn Erso prequel book.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Exterior Transportation Modules Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
These modules affix to Poe's X-Wing at the primary hull, just above the top S-Foils, behind the top engines.

I included something like this in my Advanced Starfighter Combat Project. Here's the link.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Both Jakku and Geonosis are Outer Rim planets, so it's to be expected that they're not going to be as "cosmopolitan" as planets closer to the Core, and so might not possess a thorough sensor grid...but then again, when Obi-Wan landed on Geonosis, it was a major fortress world of the Separatists that had just spent months, if not years, fortifying itself in preparation for the Clone Wars. You're right, Wajeb: Obi-Wan should have been intercepted in short order.


As fate would have it, Geonsis was mentioned in the Tarkin book that I'm listening to. According to this book, Geonsis is locked up tighter than a drum with planetary security.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
Both Jakku and Geonosis are Outer Rim planets, so it's to be expected that they're not going to be as "cosmopolitan" as planets closer to the Core, and so might not possess a thorough sensor grid...but then again, when Obi-Wan landed on Geonosis, it was a major fortress world of the Separatists that had just spent months, if not years, fortifying itself in preparation for the Clone Wars. You're right, Wajeb: Obi-Wan should have been intercepted in short order.


As fate would have it, Geonsis was mentioned in the Tarkin book that I'm listening to. According to this book, Geonsis is locked up tighter than a drum with planetary security.


And this was after the Empire took over? Considering that it's where they started constructing the Death Star, then that would have to be the case.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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