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Bren Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Naaman wrote: | When you start designing ships to carry only a certain kind of cargo, you severely limit the demand for that ship, and thus, you have an unsellable design. | In the real world some ships (and trucks) are multi-purpose, lots are not. I do agree with you that a tramp freighter should be multi-purpose.
Whether your issue is how wide the doors or hatches are, whether the ship has airlocks on the exits, or the ratio of volume to cargo tonnage few if any ship floor plans make sense. I don't tend to get too worked up about stuff like that, especially for a Space Opera game. If it bugs me, it's not difficult to modify a floor plan to look more like the way I want it to. MS-Paint, Photoshop, GIMP, or good old whiteout all can do the trick. |
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Naaman Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3191
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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ForbinProject wrote: | Naaman wrote: | When you start designing ships to carry only a certain kind of cargo, you severely limit the demand for that ship, and thus, you have an unsellable design. |
This is the crux of the problem. We're not dealing with the real world. Most of the artists that imagined these ships never took real life cargo transportation concerns into consideration.
Anyone remember the Enterprise schematics that didn't include bathrooms/toilets? 5 year deep space mission and no place to poop. |
Yes. Exactly what I was getting at earlier: the schematics are "wrong" (insofar as they lack a sufficient degree of verisimilitude). |
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Ray Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003 Posts: 1743 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Space Opera, not Hard SF. |
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Naaman Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3191
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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That seems to be the dividing line: those who just do what is reasonable and expedient for the sake of the epic story, and those who just use what is official as much as possible (potentially also for the sake of expediency in a different way). |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16178 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Whenever possible, I prefer to use deckplans from the Star Wars Deckplans Alliance and Star Wars Design Alliance, as both groups do a much better job of taking cargo hostling into account while still working with WEG ship exteriors. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14034 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:36 am Post subject: |
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ForbinProject wrote: | Naaman wrote: | When you start designing ships to carry only a certain kind of cargo, you severely limit the demand for that ship, and thus, you have an unsellable design. |
This is the crux of the problem. We're not dealing with the real world. Most of the artists that imagined these ships never took real life cargo transportation concerns into consideration. |
And many of those designers also never thought their designs would get nit picked do damn much.. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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ForbinProject Commander
Joined: 16 May 2016 Posts: 318
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:33 am Post subject: |
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Ray wrote: | Space Opera, not Hard SF. |
Even space operas have a degree of common sense and plausibility. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16178 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:41 am Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | ForbinProject wrote: | Naaman wrote: | When you start designing ships to carry only a certain kind of cargo, you severely limit the demand for that ship, and thus, you have an unsellable design. |
This is the crux of the problem. We're not dealing with the real world. Most of the artists that imagined these ships never took real life cargo transportation concerns into consideration. |
And many of those designers also never thought their designs would get nit picked do d*mn much.. |
It never ceases to amaze how you manage to get butt hurt by people pointing out obvious flaws in WEG books. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14034 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:58 am Post subject: |
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Maybe that's cause when WEB wrote their stuff, a lot of what WE have now, THEY DIDN'T back then, so didn't think that "hey maybe in 30 years, X will be so common, people will wonder WHY we didn't include it in our stuff"??? _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16178 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:17 am Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | Maybe that's cause when WEB wrote their stuff, a lot of what WE have now, THEY DIDN'T back then, so didn't think that "hey maybe in 30 years, X will be so common, people will wonder WHY we didn't include it in our stuff"??? |
Gee, I don't know. Maybe because cargo handling has been around for hundreds of years, and had advanced pretty far by the late 80's when WEG published their books? But no, let's just slap something together that doesn't hold up under close scrutiny from people who actually know something about this stuff. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16178 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:23 am Post subject: |
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ForbinProject wrote: | Ray wrote: | Space Opera, not Hard SF. |
Even space operas have a degree of common sense and plausibility. |
Which WEG threw out the window when making their deckplans. For instance, on the XS-800 you used as an example earlier, the port and starboard cargo bays will have slanted (as in, not level) floors, and have a ceiling height of less than a meter for most of their area? Oh sure, it looks fine on 2D, but as soon as you take the ship's 3D shape into account, the flaws come thick and fast. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Naaman Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3191
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: |
And many of those designers also never thought their designs would get nit picked do d*mn much.. |
Nit pick? But why cant a speeder just fly through a 2.2m opening? |
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Zarn Force Spirit
Joined: 17 Jun 2014 Posts: 698
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Try spinning. It is movie canon that it is a good trick. |
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Naaman Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Posts: 3191
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Zarn wrote: | Try spinning. It is movie canon that it is a good trick. |
Oh, I actually laughed out loud! |
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MrNexx Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Posts: 2248 Location: San Antonio
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:50 am Post subject: |
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You know, given SW technology, it would be pretty easy to have a cargo section without much of a ramp... one where the floor just dropped out, got loaded up, then was lifted/lifted itself into place, only to seal shut.
Not saying this is evident on any floor plans, mind you... just that it wouldn't be unreasonable. _________________ "I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/ |
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