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What Skills to Use?
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject: What Skills to Use? Reply with quote

So, I've been listening to Aftermath: Life Debt, and had a couple questions about what skill you would say is used in certain situations:

1) Identifying and evaluating ships. While some things are relatively common and identifiable (most folks in the Rebellion era should be able to say "That's a TIE Fighter" or "That's a Star Destroyer", even if they can't tell you how many turbolasers the later has, or the engine specs on the former), what would you say is the skill to be able to look at something going through the sky and say "That's a Wingardium Spaceworks Leviosa; looks like it has an aftermarket engine, and the tractor beam has been replaced by a missile launcher." I'm talking about being able to do it from sight, or infer things like this from sensor readings.

2) Evaluating people. In the series, it's made a point that Sinjir can look at a person and size them up... figure out if they're telling the truth, notice when he hits close to various sensitive topics in their psyche.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: What Skills to Use? Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:

1) Identifying and evaluating ships. While some things are relatively common and identifiable (most folks in the Rebellion era should be able to say "That's a TIE Fighter" or "That's a Star Destroyer", even if they can't tell you how many turbolasers the later has, or the engine specs on the former), what would you say is the skill to be able to look at something going through the sky and say "That's a Wingardium Spaceworks Leviosa; looks like it has an aftermarket engine, and the tractor beam has been replaced by a missile launcher." I'm talking about being able to do it from sight, or infer things like this from sensor readings.


Isn't the Technology skill made for that?

Quote:
KNOWLEDGE: Technology - Knowledge of different kinds of equipment--capabilities, model numbers, fair market prices, etc.

Time Taken: One combat round.

Roark: "Why, sure. It's a General Spacetronics MaKing-class transport. The rear flanges mean its the Janako model--made locally under license. Looks to me like there's some kind of modification around the gunports--may have been upgunned. Could be trouble."




Interesting: It looks like they removed that skill from 2nd Edition. Maybe the WEG writers thought it a skill ignored a lot by players when they allocate their precious skill points when creating a character?

I could see that argument. A straight KNOWLEDGE check works fine, for me. And, the Technology skill can be introduced for those few people who want to improve that skill.





Quote:
2) Evaluating people. In the series, it's made a point that Sinjir can look at a person and size them up... figure out if they're telling the truth, notice when he hits close to various sensitive topics in their psyche.


This sounds to me like a special skill, not unlike the PERCEPTION: Body Language skill used by the Lorrdians (see page 105 of Alien Encounters).
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say for the first one, it would be a specialization of the scholar skill. Perhaps Scholar: spacecraft.

Note that for this interpretation, the skill need not be acquired through formal academic means, but rather independent research on the holonet or because of knowledge/familiarity gained through peripheral study (a mechanic knows a lot about vehicles in general and can identify particular features due to a high baseline of knowleged, for example). You might allow a character with a high piloting skill or repair skill in a relevant area to use that skill at a modest penalty to ID a ship.

As for the second one, the interaction skills in D6 seem highly specific. If I had to peg only a single skill for this issue, it would be Investigation.

However, I feel that the context of the interaction would determine the skill used. If negotiating a price, your bargain result may reveal a clue as to how to get a better deal (perhaps allow a separate roll opposed by willpower, to uncover some insight as to how to butter up the salesman/buyer.

Con already opposes con, so that is self explanitory.

Intimidate is maybe a little trickier.

d20 has a few things going for it in this regard:

1: the synergy bonus. Skill in one area being helpful to skill inanother area. Having enough skill in bluff, for example boosts your intimidate and diplomacy.

2: the sense motive skill. This skill (among other uses) can provide insight into another character's mood/temperment. In addition, it can provide a synergy bonus to diplomacy.
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Telsij
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: What Skills to Use? Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:


2) Evaluating people. In the series, it's made a point that Sinjir can look at a person and size them up... figure out if they're telling the truth, notice when he hits close to various sensitive topics in their psyche.


Similar to what Namaan had said, I too have long used a separate Sense Motive skill (ported over from SWd20), as I didn't like that in RAW such rolls seemed to be tied to Con (you don't have to be a consummate confidence man to be able to tell when the other guy is also a con), but recently, in the past year or so, I have begun folding it into search or investigation and made it a specialization, depending upon the character created. For example, Investigation: character assessment is something I have used, since you are weighing clues/info about someone and are drawing conclusions, even if said clues are snap assessments of visual cues, etc.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:19 am    Post subject: Re: What Skills to Use? Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
1) Identifying and evaluating ships. While some things are relatively common and identifiable (most folks in the Rebellion era should be able to say "That's a TIE Fighter" or "That's a Star Destroyer", even if they can't tell you how many turbolasers the later has, or the engine specs on the former), what would you say is the skill to be able to look at something going through the sky and say "That's a Wingardium Spaceworks Leviosa; looks like it has an aftermarket engine, and the tractor beam has been replaced by a missile launcher." I'm talking about being able to do it from sight, or infer things like this from sensor readings.

Scholar: Starships

Quote:
2) Evaluating people. In the series, it's made a point that Sinjir can look at a person and size them up... figure out if they're telling the truth, notice when he hits close to various sensitive topics in their psyche.

I went with a version of Sense Motive that I called Discernment.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:34 am    Post subject: Re: What Skills to Use? Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
1) Identifying and evaluating ships. While some things are relatively common and identifiable (most folks in the Rebellion era should be able to say "That's a TIE Fighter" or "That's a Star Destroyer", even if they can't tell you how many turbolasers the later has, or the engine specs on the former), what would you say is the skill to be able to look at something going through the sky and say "That's a Wingardium Spaceworks Leviosa; looks like it has an aftermarket engine, and the tractor beam has been replaced by a missile launcher." I'm talking about being able to do it from sight, or infer things like this from sensor readings.

On R&E p. 47, the description of the Value skill says, "The character can also gauge specific capabilities of (and modifications made to) goods with regard to performance." That's the first thing I thought of. The Value skill was the 2e replacement for the 1e Technology skill. They generalized it because they wanted to have a skill that covered more than just technology.

I've combined both of the 2e economical skills into Business/Value. I might allow that for this type of thing but I also use the Technical attribute (and applicable Technical skills) for these Technology-type knowledge checks.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:54 am    Post subject: Re: What Skills to Use? Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
1) Identifying and evaluating ships. While some things are relatively common and identifiable (most folks in the Rebellion era should be able to say "That's a TIE Fighter" or "That's a Star Destroyer", even if they can't tell you how many turbolasers the later has, or the engine specs on the former), what would you say is the skill to be able to look at something going through the sky and say "That's a Wingardium Spaceworks Leviosa; looks like it has an aftermarket engine, and the tractor beam has been replaced by a missile launcher." I'm talking about being able to do it from sight, or infer things like this from sensor readings.

On R&E p. 47, the description of the Value skill says, "The character can also gauge specific capabilities of (and modifications made to) goods with regard to performance." That's the first thing I thought of. The Value skill was the 2e replacement for the 1e Technology skill. They generalized it because they wanted to have a skill that covered more than just technology.

I've combined both of the 2e economical skills into Business/Value. I might allow that for this type of thing but I also use the Technical attribute (and applicable Technical skills) for these Technology-type knowledge checks.


I agree with this, though the technical attribute may not suffice in some regards (such as when the difference between aptitude vs. acquired knowledge is relevant).
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: What Skills to Use? Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Whill wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
1) Identifying and evaluating ships. While some things are relatively common and identifiable (most folks in the Rebellion era should be able to say "That's a TIE Fighter" or "That's a Star Destroyer", even if they can't tell you how many turbolasers the later has, or the engine specs on the former), what would you say is the skill to be able to look at something going through the sky and say "That's a Wingardium Spaceworks Leviosa; looks like it has an aftermarket engine, and the tractor beam has been replaced by a missile launcher." I'm talking about being able to do it from sight, or infer things like this from sensor readings.

On R&E p. 47, the description of the Value skill says, "The character can also gauge specific capabilities of (and modifications made to) goods with regard to performance." That's the first thing I thought of. The Value skill was the 2e replacement for the 1e Technology skill. They generalized it because they wanted to have a skill that covered more than just technology.

I've combined both of the 2e economical skills into Business/Value. I might allow that for this type of thing but I also use the Technical attribute (and applicable Technical skills) for these Technology-type knowledge checks.


I agree with this, though the technical attribute may not suffice in some regards (such as when the difference between aptitude vs. acquired knowledge is relevant).

Agreed.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing I can offer on this from personal experience is that I used to be quite fascinated with military equipment of all types, whether ships, aircraft, armored vehicles, personal weaponry, etc, and could tell you type and basic capability on sight. However, I couldn't tell you what they were worth (Value) if my life depended on it...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The only thing I can offer on this from personal experience is that I used to be quite fascinated with military equipment of all types, whether ships, aircraft, armored vehicles, personal weaponry, etc, and could tell you type and basic capability on sight. However, I couldn't tell you what they were worth (Value) if my life depended on it...

Of course, that makes a lot of sense for the real world. For the game, it's the age-old debate of how general or broad you want your skills to be to simulate the cinematic reality of Star Wars. In RAW, Value is very general, even more so than the 1e Technology skill it replaced. And on top of that, I combined it with 2e's Business! But it makes sense to me that some RAW uses of Value, such as gauging the capabilities of technology, could be covered under the applicable Technical skill. In my game, a character with high Walker Repair skill and low Business/Value skill could use the Walker repair for gauging technological capabilities of walkers without being knowledgeable of the economic aspects of Walkers.

In RAW, Scholar specializations can provide a small bonus for real world applications. If the player sufficiently develops the PC's background, I don't feel it is unreasonable to allow a Scholar specialization for a broader generalization such as "military equipment" that can provide a bonus to some technologically based skill checks.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The only thing I can offer on this from personal experience is that I used to be quite fascinated with military equipment of all types, whether ships, aircraft, armored vehicles, personal weaponry, etc, and could tell you type and basic capability on sight. However, I couldn't tell you what they were worth (Value) if my life depended on it...


This is what I was getting at. Cool
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say use that old Technology knowledge skill, or go with scholar/value..
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griff
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have kept the technology skill on my skill list. I thought it was a mistake to remove it for the Second Edition.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

griff wrote:
I have kept the technology skill on my skill list. I thought it was a mistake to remove it for the Second Edition.

That's cool, but it wasn't technically removed. It was broadened and renamed Value.
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