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Czerka T-99 “Rebuker” Light Repeating Slugthrower Rifle
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The Brain
Lieutenant Commander
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 242

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

This also ties in to my main objection about your accessories list. It wasn't that you had them, it was that the list of accessories ran the gamut from accessories appropriate for a crew-served heavy weapon (the tripod) all the way to close combat accessories (the bayonets) for use in environments for which this weapon is ill suited (its size will hamper it in tight quarters in ways that pistols and carbines are not).


Ya, thats just silly like anti-aircraft sights on a bolt action rifle or a bayonet on a light machine gun. Things like never would never exist, oh wait...
https://youtu.be/y2EkEsvwARE?t=73
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EurnY3kDnyI

And as for only a 75 round capacity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUGyfkaS8Fk
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ForbinProject
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Joined: 16 May 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Brain wrote:
Ya, thats just silly like anti-aircraft sights on a bolt action rifle


And they were intended to be used in volley fire against slow, low flying, lightly armored or unarmored biplanes in the beginning of WWII before Americas hi tech planes were introduced. Nothing silly about that.


Quote:
or a bayonet on a light machine gun.


Nothing silly about that either. The weight of light machine gun is light enough to be used in an emergency in hand to hand combat so fitting a bayonet to one was reasonable in WWII when positions and trenches were frequently overrun.

The American M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle is another example of a light machine gun that soldiers could affix bayonets to.


Quote:
And as for only a 75 round capacity


You seem to be forgetting that light machine guns are designed as weapons to be carried and operated by a single person, and they require a ton of ammo and replacement barrels to be effective.

The German MG34 & MG42 in the video you posted used 50 round belts because every soldier in a German infantry squad was required to carry extra ammunition for the machine gunner on top of all their own gear. 1,800 rounds and 6 replacement barrels as standard recommended load-out. (And any seasoned combat vet knows to carry extra ammo/barrels cuz the standard load-out is NEVER enough)

Even the ammunition for the American M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) LMG only came in 20 round clips.

This is why machine guns are more effective in fixed defenses where ammunition and replacement barrels can be stockpiled and additional crew can be assigned to help keep the weapon firing continuously.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Brain wrote:
Ya, thats just silly like anti-aircraft sights on a bolt action rifle or a bayonet on a light machine gun. Things like never would never exist, oh wait...
https://youtu.be/y2EkEsvwARE?t=73
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EurnY3kDnyI

And as for only a 75 round capacity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUGyfkaS8Fk

Certain people can always be depended upon to be so entranced by a perceived opportunity for sarcastic nit-picking that they miss the point.

The point, which I made a few pages back, is that this gun spreads itself too thin in an attempt to be too many things at once. It is, at various turns, an assault rifle, a sniper rifle, and a crew-served support weapon. As a result, it doesn't do any of them particularly well.

Now, if Error stripped down the stat to make a basic model, to which accessories and options could be applied to turn it into a specialized weapon type, that would be more believable. For example, the basic AR15 platform can accept a wide variety of modifications to make, at turns, a basic assault weapon, a carbine, a light machine gun, a scoped rifle or a support weapon (by adding a grenade launcher). However, by specializing in one area, the weapon becomes less useful in others, even though the basic platform itself retains the potential.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Dredwulf60
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Joined: 07 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course the other option is that the Rebuker is designed and built by a culture that thought it was a good idea...and it matched their aesthetics, even if the galaxy in general didn't get it.

History is filled with *WTF?* inventions that result in evolutionary dead-ends.

Like the mitrailleuse, off the top of my head...a weird mutant on the road to the modern machine gun.

It's (Rebuker's) draw backs give it a certain charm...even a bit of infamy.
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CRMcNeill
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yet it is a Czerka product, and Czerka is one of the galaxy's larger weapon companies. A company like that would have a larger market in mind.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Yet it is a Czerka product, and Czerka is one of the galaxy's larger weapon companies. A company like that would have a larger market in mind.


Well...not everything is a hit. Remember New Coke? Mcdonalds Pizza? lol.

Or maybe it's a space-chinese knock-off with counterfeit branding.



Very Happy
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The Brain
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

Certain people can always be depended upon to be so entranced by a perceived opportunity for sarcastic nit-picking that they miss the point.


Much like some people can be counted on to not realize that even IRL not every device springs from a flawless design concept. Let alone in a fictional space opera universe.

In the interest of not ruining this thread for everyone else by letting it turn into a flame war I hereby voluntarily recuse myself from any further responses to it.
-GM: You really want to make a snarky parting remark.
-Player: I resist the urge. <rolls dice> Yes! Heroic success with my willpower skill.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the opening paragraph, Error specifically stated that he wanted this thing to be available to PCs, so he wanted help making it fair and balanced. That's never going to happen if people bend over backwards trying to explain why this bulky, cumbersome, overly complicated thing is just fine the way it is.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16163
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more thoughts...
Error wrote:
Fire Rate: 1 (single) or 3 (repeating)
<Snip>
Damage: 6D+2 (4D+2 against targets wearing Space Age body armor.)
Game Notes: This weapon is a heavy, large-caliber slugthrower and cannot be wielded unassisted by characters with less than 3D Strength. This rifle is equipped with both a single shot mode and a light repeating mode. On repeating mode, the weapon actually fires three slugs per shot instead of one. Despite the fact that this weapon has a recoil suppressor, the character must brace the gun against something (such as an armpit) or it will fly out of their hands and land 1D meters away on the first shot.

-When taken together, this is an extremely slow-firing weapon, firing either 1 or 3 rounds every 5 seconds, with a monstrous kick. That kind of firing rate suggests a large bore, high velocity bullet, on the level of a shotgun slug. So why does it suffer a -2D penalty against "Space Age armor" (and how do you define what is Space Age and what isn't)? Consider the Morellian .48 Enforcer, a heavy slugthrower pistol that doesn't have a Strength limitation, and only suffers from increased difficulty when firing multiple shots per round, but still inflicts 6D+1 regardless of the target. With the kind of power this gun has, it should be punching through armor plate like tissue paper, Space Age armor or not.

-What happens if the character with less than 3D Strength fires this gun unassisted? No penalties are listed, nor is there any description of what qualifies as "assisted".

-Why are there no additional penalties for when firing in repeater mode?

-The specialized bullets were something I could get behind, since I consider the ability to custom-load ammo to be one of the main advantages of firearms in the SWU.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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