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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:04 am Post subject: |
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Another idea I've been considering is coming up with some way to offset the Bell Curve effect, so as to shallow it out and have a greater expectancy of hits off of the CEP.
For instance, I'm thinking of counting all the dice in the To Hit roll as potential Wild Dice. On any roll of 1 or 6, roll another D, with the result then either added to or subtracted from the total, which will then push the probability of results other than the mean up.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | Okay, what I'm talking about is this...
I'm assuming your mortar is Speeder-Scale, so using the 1/2/3 Scatter Chart, your mortar can be expected to miss a Character-Scale target by a mean distance of 3 meters at Short Range, 16 meters at Medium Range and 39 meters at Long Range. However, now you factor in Blast Radius. Assuming you're using the AP round, with its 16 meter maximum, you are practically guaranteed a hit of some kind at Short Range, and a pretty good chance of one at Medium, while you will be hit-or-miss at Long Range.
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Exactly. Even with a dodge out, its only getting you 2 blast zones further away normally, so the damage is still there, but lessened.. So more survivable..
| CRMcNeill wrote: | The central question is, is that too accurate, just right, or not accurate enough?
Depending on which chart we settle on, Fire Control and Blast Radius will shift the deadliness of any given round, so we need to settle on a baseline, preferably some sort of general purpose HE round, and then from there, we can start tweaking stats to achieve specific results. |
A lot of that depends greatly on
A) diff to hit
B) whether the pcs get warning to dodge or not
C) gunnery and fire control of operators etc..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | A) diff to hit |
It should be standard for Difficulty by Range, like everything else. It's the system we all know.
| Quote: | | B) whether the pcs get warning to dodge or not |
I made my opinion clear earlier, but again, since this is a cinematic universe, characters should receive some sort of warning. Not a lot, but enough for, say, a Dodge roll of some kind that permits a "drop whatever you're doing and dive for the nearest available cover" sort of reaction.
| Quote: | | C) gunnery and fire control of operators etc.. |
It'll also factor in the capabilities of various warheads, as well. A cluster shell dispensing frag grenades will have lower damage, but greater accuracy due to spreading its effect more evenly within the blast radius.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | A) diff to hit |
It should be standard for Difficulty by Range, like everything else. It's the system we all know. |
So you wouldn't add anything for
A) Indirect firing
B) movement speed of targets
C) weather/wind?
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Quote: | | C) gunnery and fire control of operators etc.. |
It'll also factor in the capabilities of various warheads, as well. A cluster shell dispensing frag grenades will have lower damage, but greater accuracy due to spreading its effect more evenly within the blast radius. |
Or a cluster mine, dispensing say 40 or so 4d AP mines over a field..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | A) Indirect firing |
...
I was under the impression that was our primary focus here, and that blast radii and scatter values for direct fire weaponry was incidental (or at least secondary) to developing them for indirect fire weapons...
| Quote: | | B) movement speed of targets |
This, oddly enough, isn't included in the RAW (there is no rule for a moving target being harder to hit than a stationary one), which I think is a mistake. The question is how to generate the modifier...
Wind, yes. My understanding is that weather's main factor insofar as calculating aim is the difference in air pressure, and that rain falling has minimal effect...
| Quote: | | Or a cluster mine, dispensing say 40 or so 4d AP mines over a field.. |
That too. I was just citing an example of one shell type, but all of the various shells would have different stats based on their use. IMO, the best way to handle minefields is to treat them as a Terrain Difficulty, with Movement Failures resulting in an exploding mine.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Zarn
Force Spirit
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| Why not use the Speed code in 1e to the absolute speeds in 2e table, but in reverse in order to generate the difficulty to hit a moving target? Though you'll probably use the difference in speeds if you're going down that route. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Zarn wrote: | | Why not use the Speed code in 1e to the absolute speeds in 2e table, but in reverse in order to generate the difficulty to hit a moving target? Though you'll probably use the difference in speeds if you're going down that route. |
The problem with this is that they assigned dice modifiers as part of the conversion formula in the 2E rulebook, so the Speed Code numbers won't be the same. Personally, I'd base it on a combination of meters / units moved (as a function of base Move and movement level) and direction of travel relative to the shooter.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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ForbinProject
Commander
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Read the thread and I've been thinking about what I could contribute. There are other with a far better understanding of the game mechanics, so I'm not gonna try debating any of that.
So I started thinking of suggestions for types of projectile arty that might fit in the SWU.
First is the NLOS Cannon (Non-Line of Sight). A 155mm howitzer that can fire shells fast enough on different trajectories so all the shells fired hit the same target simultaneously.
The second is the Metal Storm system. This system can fire hundreds to thousands of projectiles in seconds or just single fire. The ammunition for this system comes pre-loaded in the barrels of the weapon system, and reloading is swapping out barrels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx_9_RgMPCE
Now IMHO the best calibers would be grenade launchers and mortars because reloading barrels for larger calibers would be too heavy, and take too long. And smaller calibers for like infantry weapons would be a PITA for troops to lug around replacement barrels.
I see the best use of Metal Storm as an automated defense system. Active/passive sensors could be set up far enough away from the launchers so any enemy fire targeting sensors wouldn't damage the guns.
Furthermore the system could be layered in a fashion that attackers defensive systems could easily be overwhelmed by hundreds and thousands of incoming rounds from every direction. As well as forcing an attacker to advance thru a continuous barrage as they approach their target. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Some additional shells might be a massive version of a smoke grenade, that say sets up a 20x20 block of smoke vice a standard grenade that may only do a 10x10 area.
Or a starlight shell, that lights up the night sky as if it was day in a 50x50 region for 2d rounds..
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ForbinProject
Commander
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Some additional shells might be a massive version of a smoke grenade, that say sets up a 20x20 block of smoke vice a standard grenade that may only do a 10x10 area.
Or a starlight shell, that lights up the night sky as if it was day in a 50x50 region for 2d rounds.. |
Were Area Denial Artillery Munitions (ADAM) mentioned? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ForbinProject wrote: | | Were Area Denial Artillery Munitions (ADAM) mentioned? |
I assume you are referring to artillery-delivered minefields?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ForbinProject wrote: | | First is the NLOS Cannon (Non-Line of Sight). A 155mm howitzer that can fire shells fast enough on different trajectories so all the shells fired hit the same target simultaneously. |
This is essentially a one-gun Time-On-Target capability. I still have my indirect-fire variant of the AT-AA on the backburner until we nail down the rules for artillery, but I picture it mounting quadruple fire-linked launchers that would be capable of doing something like this.
| Quote: | | The second is the Metal Storm system. This system can fire hundreds to thousands of projectiles in seconds or just single fire. The ammunition for this system comes pre-loaded in the barrels of the weapon system, and reloading is swapping out barrels. |
Very cool. I think the closest the EU has is the Anti-Infantry and Anti-Vehicle missile launchers described in Hideouts & Strongholds.
| Quote: | | I see the best use of Metal Storm as an automated defense system. Active/passive sensors could be set up far enough away from the launchers so any enemy fire targeting sensors wouldn't damage the guns. |
There is mention in the ImpSB (page 85) of the Merr-Sonn 4.4 Grenade Launcher being an alternative to the E-Web in Repulsorlift Heavy Weapons Squads. No stats are provided, but I picture it being part of a triad of crew-served heavy support weapons mentioned in the same paragraph:-Heavy Repeating Blaster for direct-fire use against personnel and light vehicles.
-Light Laser Cannon for direct fire against heavier vehicles and hard targets such as bunkers.
-Grenade Launcher for both direct and indirect ordnance fire against all target types, depending on ordnance used.
The way I'm picturing projectile artillery in the EU is that the current state-of-the-art uses gravity pulses for propellant, a generational step above railguns. The strength of the pulse can be varied from a lob-toss appropriate for high-angle launches like howitzers and mortars down to direct-path kinetic strikes at c-fractional velocities. The launcher itself would be mounted on a self-steering base, which could be mated with either a pedestal mount in a vehicle or a folding base-plate style mount on the ground. Rather than hand-loading and firing, as with modern mortars, it would be magazine fed, potentially with a multi-load magazine that can hold multiple warhead types and switch between them on command.
I have yet to work up stats for this, but this is where my thoughts are leaning...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | ForbinProject wrote: | | Were Area Denial Artillery Munitions (ADAM) mentioned? |
I assume you are referring to artillery-delivered minefields? |
I think he is.. For me area denial minefields would have 2 'scores'
First up is a 'hidden score' when they deploy to avoid detection.
Second up is a 'movement modifier score' for tests to go across said terrain without triggering one...
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | For me area denial minefields would have 2 'scores'
First up is a 'hidden score' when they deploy to avoid detection.
Second up is a 'movement modifier score' for tests to go across said terrain without triggering one... |
That makes sense. The Hide skill is perfect for this; more advanced mines with burrowing or auto-concealing features would have a higher Hide skill equivalent.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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ForbinProject
Commander
Joined: 16 May 2016
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | ForbinProject wrote: | | Were Area Denial Artillery Munitions (ADAM) mentioned? |
I assume you are referring to artillery-delivered minefields? |
Yes. |
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