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Static range for blasters and other ranged weapons
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. Since most firefights IRW take place with 7m, that might be a good cult off point for close range.

You might want to give pistols a slight bonus to hit at the shorter ranges to reflect the fact that they can be a bit easier to bring to bear and to keep a bead on a moving target in close.

Oh, one way you could come up with range mods for individual weapons would be to put the existing weapon range stats into a spreadsheet (or database) and find "average" values. Weapons that deviate from the average could get a modifier, sat +/-1 per 10% deviation.

For example, if the typical pistol had a close range of 10, then a weapon with a close range of 12 might get a +2 in close. If the typical pistol had a medium range of 30, one with a medium range of only 25 could get a -2
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
Interesting. Since most firefights IRW take place with 7m, that might be a good cult off point for close range.

I'd prefer to go with situational criteria for ranging instead of actual numbers.

Quote:
You might want to give pistols a slight bonus to hit at the shorter ranges to reflect the fact that they can be a bit easier to bring to bear and to keep a bead on a moving target in close.

That could also be an advantage for carbines or riot blasters, as well.

Quote:
Oh, one way you could come up with range mods for individual weapons would be to put the existing weapon range stats into a spreadsheet (or database) and find "average" values. Weapons that deviate from the average could get a modifier, sat +/-1 per 10% deviation.

For example, if the typical pistol had a close range of 10, then a weapon with a close range of 12 might get a +2 in close. If the typical pistol had a medium range of 30, one with a medium range of only 25 could get a -2

I don't have the time available for that at the moment, but if you'd like to take a stab at it, feel free.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:

I'd prefer to go with situational criteria for ranging instead of actual numbers.


Fair enough. But some sort of idea for the cutoff points are nice. I can see vehicle and space combat being tricky this way. You might need to go back to range bands for distance.

Quote:
That could also be an advantage for carbines or riot blasters, as well.


Yup. Maybe give hold out blasters a bonus at point blank.

Quote:
I don't have the time available for that at the moment, but if you'd like to take a stab at it, feel free.


I might. The easy way to do it would be to rip the data from the compiled weapon pdf, put them into a database, plug in the formula, and then automate the process into a spreadsheet. That way we can do up mods for a lot of weapons at once, really quickly, see the results, and adjust the formula if the results seem off.


What are the desired baseline stats for each weapon type? I need to know what you want the typical pistol, carbine, rifle, etc. to be so I can get the right answers.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
I can see vehicle and space combat being tricky this way. You might need to go back to range bands for distance.

My idea for that was to tie ranges in with scale, so that, as scale increased, so also did the range brackets involved. In essence, for every step by which scale increased, the uniform range bracket shifted a step with it. For example, if a Character scale weapon's range is measured in Point Blank / Short / Medium / Long, a Speeder scale weapon's range is shifted one step to the right, so that the Speeder weapon's Point Blank is the Character's Short, Speeder Short is Character Medium, and so on.

Quote:
What are the desired baseline stats for each weapon type? I need to know what you want the typical pistol, carbine, rifle, etc. to be so I can get the right answers.

In the interests of simplicity, I just figured I'd go with the weapon types listed in the RPG rulebook. The fewer steps, the better.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:

My idea for that was to tie ranges in with scale, so that, as scale increased, so also did the range brackets involved. In essence, for every step by which scale increased, the uniform range bracket shifted a step with it. For example, if a Character scale weapon's range is measured in Point Blank / Short / Medium / Long, a Speeder scale weapon's range is shifted one step to the right, so that the Speeder weapon's Point Blank is the Character's Short, Speeder Short is Character Medium, and so on.


Hmm, if you are going to do it that way, I think you might want to keep everything abstract. Get rid of the map and just have ships/vehicles/people change range bands in combat.

Come to think of it a few RPGs that use range bands have some maneuvers that could be ported over.
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Ning Leihrec
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This post topic read my mind. Naaman and Crmcneill are onto just the system I'm looking for. I'm going back to 1st E speed codes and using static ranges. I remember the speed codes being way simpler during action sequences and more fun. The static ranges and additional scale categories as I see them should be:
Point-blank
Short
Medium
Long
Very long
Extreme (out-of-unaided-sight)
Speeder extreme
Walker extreme
Starfighter extreme
Frigate (aka Crmcneill's "starship") extreme
Capital extreme
Super Star Destroyer extreme
Death Star extreme
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL. I was actually thinking about this. I have an alternate version that might work even better...

In Mini D6, the system reverts to Star Wars 1E's Speed Codes, but then applying modifiers to the speed based on the type of movement/environment. The four classes are Primitive / Muscle Power, Ground / Water Vehicle, Aircraft and Spacecraft. I started thinking maybe a variation of this system would work here. Rather than having ranges based on scale, have them based on environment. Basically, weapons would all have uniform ranges based on the environment in which they would be used: Small Arms, Ground Vehicle, Atmosphere and Space, with the different ranges being classified in general terms or in range classes (several hundred meters, not 350 meters).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, for Small Arms, we have the usual Point Blank, Short, Medium and Long, plus Extreme.

For Space Combat, the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook lists the Primary Zone, Secondary Zone, the Kill Zone and the Long Engagement Zone, which would roughly correspond to the four basic ranges under the RAW. There would also need to be some version of Extreme to cover Sensor range. IMO, any space combat, whether using starfighters or capital ships, would use these ranges, with starfighters mostly being limited to the Primary and Secondary Zones.

So what would be appropriate uniform range brackets for ground vehicle combat and atmosphere?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Savar
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
LOL. I was actually thinking about this. I have an alternate version that might work even better...

In Mini D6, the system reverts to Star Wars 1E's Speed Codes, but then applying modifiers to the speed based on the type of movement/environment. The four classes are Primitive / Muscle Power, Ground / Water Vehicle, Aircraft and Spacecraft. I started thinking maybe a variation of this system would work here. Rather than having ranges based on scale, have them based on environment. Basically, weapons would all have uniform ranges based on the environment in which they would be used: Small Arms, Ground Vehicle, Atmosphere and Space, with the different ranges being classified in general terms or in range classes (several hundred meters, not 350 meters).


Environment and line of sight should effect all ranges. But the environmental effects would depend on the type of attack. Beam, ion, slow projectile (muscle powered), medium projectile (chemical powered), fast projectile (magnetic powered).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That will all be factored into the difficulty modifiers at a given range. For instance, in space combat, the shorter ranged ion cannon would have a higher difficulty modifier at Long range than would the more capable turbolaser.
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Ning Leihrec
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crmcneill wrote:
So what would be appropriate uniform range brackets for ground vehicle combat and atmosphere?

for this its a little trickier because of the common interplay of small arms and vehicular weapons. In this instance doesn't it make sense to retain the scale system? At least from character to speeder to walker? Once we're in outer space it makes sense for the various scales to be operating on different categories of the same range set. Or would there just be two range sets... Atmosphere and Space, with a broader list of range categories therein accounted for. The earlier scaling system seems simpler to my mind now. How would you work the mechanic for a smaller scaled assailant getting "under the guns" in the new system? Would larger weapons just not have a point-blank (or comparable) option? What am I missing here?
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For that, I would say that certain weapons would have range values in multiple categories, much like how starfighters and capital ships have ranges in both space and atmosphere under the current system. Something like an E-Web might have the full range of personal weapons, but also have modifiers in the short or medium range for ground vehicles as well.
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Ning Leihrec
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isnt that nearly the same thing as the scaled system?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ning Leihrec wrote:
isnt that nearly the same thing as the scaled system?

Somewhat, but less complicated. There will still be some overlap, in the case of ground / air and ground / space engagement, but rather than having to flip between scales to figure out whose weapons are firing at what difficulty, the environment in which the combat is occurring dictates the range, regardless of scale. For instance, in space combat, a capital ship's turbolasers might have difficulty modifiers in all four ranges, whereas a starfighter would have them only at the space-equivalent of short and point blank, representing the relatively short range of starfighter-mounted weaponry in space combat.
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Ning Leihrec
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't a turbolaser have no capability at point blank? Or just a high diff. mod?

For atmosphere combat it seems like one set of ranges for ground and air would be simplest. But to account for the difference in vehicle ranges and the speed at which they cross those ranges maybe speeders (land & air)would skip over some range categories, while walkers would have to cross all the categories to close distances but be ineffective at point blank.

Atmosphere Ranges:
Point Blank --- character / speeder
Short --- character / walker
Medium --- character / speeder / walker
Long --- character / walker
Very Long (out-of-unaided-sight) --- character / speeder / walker
Extreme (blaster artillery/walker cannons) --- walker


Last edited by Ning Leihrec on Sat May 09, 2015 11:01 am; edited 2 times in total
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