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garhkal
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 Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:20 am Post subject: |
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This thread makes me wonder what other races would have interbreedability.
What say of Wookies and Togorians, or Sellonians and Triianni?
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:10 am Post subject: Re: Interbreedable ? |
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| lurker wrote: | | After reading ninjaxe's adventure thread, I got to thinking, what races can interbreed with humans? It is easy to assume 'near humans'. However, when I read about the half Twi Lek as the character's daughter, it surprised me a little. I know they are 'attractive' but interbreed able ???? Also, what do the interbreeds (that are not very near human) look like? What does a twi lek half breed look like? |
Star Wars seems to suggest that convergent evolution is common in the galaxy. What lead to us to have humanoid form was the direct result of many very specific environmental factors on Earth, but in the SW galaxy there are a whole plethora of humanoid aliens that are not genetically related to humanity according to the EU. Of course the SW galaxy is very large with many star systems, so even with the wide variety of life-bearing planets, mathematically many of them should be Earthlike planets. If so, then it is not too much of a stretch that unrelated humanoid lifeforms could be so prevalent in the SW galaxy.
Near-Human species each branched of from mainline humanity at some point in the past. The EU shows that Humans can interbreed with some (but not all) near-humans. SW Humans generally can't interbreed with genetically unrelated species, and as an armchair evolutionary biologist I agree with that, so that is how it works in my SWU.
Twi'lek-Human hybrids being possible would seem to depend on the classification of Twi-'leks. This is interesting because Twi'leks (especially females) are so humanlike, but at the same time so alien with the head-tails. Curtis Saxton's STAR WARS Technical Commentaries indicates that the differences in embryonic requirements for Twi'lek headtails would mean they couldn't be near-humans. Saxton classifies Twi'leks as a genetically unrelated pseudohuman species that became more humanlike (especially females) over the millennia of interaction with humanity. That makes sense to me, and that would mean they should be incapable of interbreeding with humanity...
Then The Clones Wars happened and half-Twi'leks exist in canon. Saxton says that Twi'leks could only be genetically related to humanity as a result of very deliberate generic engineering on Twi'leks in the past. That's certainly possible in the Star Wars galaxy with the Celestials and Rakata.
So to answer the OP, IMO Human-Twi'lek hybrids existing in your game would depend on whether Twi'leks are completely unrelated to humanity, or they have enough human DNA in them to interbreed. It's your call.
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lurker
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Interbreedable ? |
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| Whill wrote: | Star Wars seems to suggest that convergent evolution is common in the galaxy. What lead to us to have humanoid form was the direct result of many very specific environmental factors on Earth, but in the SW galaxy there are a whole plethora of humanoid aliens that are not genetically related to humanity according to the EU. Of course the SW galaxy is very large with many star systems, so even with the wide variety of life-bearing planets, mathematically many of them should be Earthlike planets. If so, then it is not too much of a stretch that unrelated humanoid lifeforms could be so prevalent in the SW galaxy.
Near-Human species each branched of from mainline humanity at some point in the past. The EU shows that Humans can interbreed with some (but not all) near-humans. SW Humans generally can't interbreed with genetically unrelated species, and as an armchair evolutionary biologist I agree with that, so that is how it works in my SWU.
Twi'lek-Human hybrids being possible would seem to depend on the classification of Twi-'leks. This is interesting because Twi'leks (especially females) are so humanlike, but at the same time so alien with the head-tails. Curtis Saxton's STAR WARS Technical Commentaries indicates that the differences in embryonic requirements for Twi'lek headtails would mean they couldn't be near-humans. Saxton classifies Twi'leks as a genetically unrelated pseudohuman species that became more humanlike (especially females) over the millennia of interaction with humanity. That makes sense to me, and that would mean they should be incapable of interbreeding with humanity...
Then The Clones Wars happened and half-Twi'leks exist in canon. Saxton says that Twi'leks could only be genetically related to humanity as a result of very deliberate generic engineering on Twi'leks in the past. That's certainly possible in the Star Wars galaxy with the Celestials and Rakata.
So to answer the OP, IMO Human-Twi'lek hybrids existing in your game would depend on whether Twi'leks are completely unrelated to humanity, or they have enough human DNA in them to interbreed. It's your call. |
Thanks & I agree. That is why I was surprised by the Twi Lek cross breed in his story ... However, we have to suspend reality (to greater or lesser extents) in so many areas of SW, that I have no problem shrugging off the reality of this, if given a half way usable reason ...
I don't run a game, so this is at best an academic discussion for me ...
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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On the subject of interbreeding of humans and twi'liks. Didn't the Xwing novels touch on that subject?
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Ninjaxenomorph
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Several books did, but the most recent example (The Clone Wars) says that it is possible. I rule that it requires some genetic fiddling to be feasible. |
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Zarn
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:20 am Post subject: |
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I tend to use "Near-Human" as my catch-all for the consequences from late nights in agreeable company with Barry White (or whatever the SWEU equivalent is) playing. SW seems to fall down heavy on the 'everyone's the same on the inside / uglies are compatible' in the movie genetics scale, with the explicit exception of some of the insectoid races. It might not be the Precursor idea prevalent in Star Trek or StarGate, but it's certainly suspicious.
For me, if the difference is just cosmetic (or perhaps just some story factors as opposed to special abilities), they're near-human with a description, 2D / 4D in all categories, and 10 in base Move. Done, happy, next question and all that. I might be convinced to get, say, half-Nautolan (though that head full of tentacles freak me out) the 'aquatic' ability similar to what Mon Calamari have, or perhaps a +1D in Languages or what have you, but that's the player convincing me that the exact kind of hybrid is important. Perhaps a half-Massassi could get claws (up to +1D Str bonus for damage only when brawling), or a half-Duros could get +1D in one piloting skill - I think it's clear what I'm getting at.
Halfbreeds aren't really handled any differently from aliens (if they're clearly different from human baseline - for instance, they're bright pink or purple, like Zeltrons), provided that they're not in a culture where their heritage is a problem. For Joe Average on Coruscant, it doesn't matter whether the guy in front of you is a Wroonian or a Duros if you're biased against aliens - they're both blue - and you act accordingly.
The exception to this would be halfbreeds in a society - often their own - that are biased against halfbreeds. For instance, if a planet has a Human nobility and lots of twi'lek slaves, a twi'lek halfbreed might have a hard time. And yes, I'm aware that 'halfbreed' is usually an objectionable choice of words, but in this case I'm trying to emphasize their mixed genetic background. |
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Seghast
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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I prefer to stick to human and a very small handful of the near-human races (like Hapans) to keep things a bit more realistic. Look at how much DNA we have in common with chimps, over 90%, and yet the two species can't interbreed. By that logic, it makes no sense to me that humans could successfully breed with aliens from a different world with a completely different evolutionary history.
But a lot of my group members prefer the idea of all sorts of half-breeds; half-Twi'Leks and half-Falleen seem to be some of their favorites. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Seghast wrote: | I prefer to stick to human and a very small handful of the near-human races (like Hapans) to keep things a bit more realistic. Look at how much DNA we have in common with chimps, over 90%, and yet the two species can't interbreed. By that logic, it makes no sense to me that humans could successfully breed with aliens from a different world with a completely different evolutionary history.
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Exactly. If some critter we have 90% DNA in common with can't interbreed, how can players feel totally different species from different worlds could.?
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Bobmalooga
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure if it is has been mentioned or not, but I do believe there is a page on Wookiepedia that deals with this. I know that I've seen it somewhere, that seems to be the most logical.
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Zarn
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:08 am Post subject: |
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There are at least two pages on Wookieepedia that can be relevant.
Near-Human is a discussion of near humans and their status. Hybrid discusses some known variants that produce offspring, and some variants that do not. There's also an intriguing reference to Sith alchemy (intriguing, as I immediately envisaged a Dark Side fertility clinic, with a Zabrak nurse in a Harley Quinn-style outfit) being able to bridge at least some of the incompatibility issues.
Contrary to how I usually play, the page on hybrids notes that, "Many species ostracized members who bore hybrid children". The reference is a story in Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina in 1995, so I'm unsure whether it is a common though individual cultural conditioning, or it is a Galactic Republic superculture thing. |
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Whill
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Zarn wrote: | There are at least two pages on Wookieepedia that can be relevant.
Near-Human is a discussion of near humans and their status. Hybrid discusses some known variants that produce offspring, and some variants that do not. There's also an intriguing reference to Sith alchemy (intriguing, as I immediately envisaged a Dark Side fertility clinic, with a Zabrak nurse in a Harley Quinn-style outfit) being able to bridge at least some of the incompatibility issues. |
LOL
| lurker wrote: | | I got to thinking, what races can interbreed with humans? It is easy to assume 'near humans'. |
While Corellians, Etti, Hapans and Lorrdians may have game stats that differentiate them from baseline Humans, they are all still genetically Humans (not near-humans) so they can all easily interbreed with each other and standard Humans. Even in the EU, only some near-human species can interbreed with Humans and each other. Along with standard Humans, my game has Corellians, Etti, Hapans, Lorrdians, and human Clones as playable races in my game. I'm thinking that Kaminoan human clones would have intentionally been designed to be sterile, if not automatically sterile as a result of the cloning process.
In my game, Wroonians can interbreed with Humans. Pantorans are the result of a Wroonian colony that developed into a separate and distinct culture (less Wroonian-like and more humanlike). Genetically, Pantorans are still Wroonians.
In my game, Zabrak are a near-human species resulting from ancient genetic engineering. Like in the EU (and current canon), Zabrak can interbreed with Humans in my SWU. Zabrak-Human males tend to be more Zabrak-like, while females tend to be more humanlike. Zabrak can also interbreed with Wroonians in my game. And Zabrak-Human-Wroonian hybrids are possible. Dathomirians are a population of people descended from Humans and Zabrak, and thus are a race of Zabrak-Human hybrids. (In my SWU, Maul had a Dathomirian mother and a full-Zabrak father, making Maul a hybrid who was about 3/4 Zabrak and 1/4 Human.) In my SWU, Elomin are an offshoot of Zabrak, but far enough evolved from humans to not be considered near-humans and not able to interbreed with humans.
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Whill
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | This thread makes me wonder what other races would have interbreedability.
What say of Wookies and Togorians...? |
No.
| garhkal wrote: | | ...or Sellonians and Triianni? |
No.
Even if these two pairs of species were revealed to have evolved on the same planet of origin, they are different types of species. They are all mammals, but Wookiees are a primate-like species and Togorians are felines. Selonians are a weasel-like species while Trianii are felines.
Togorians and Trianii? Maybe. They are both felines. Lions and tigers are genetically similar enough to produce offspring. Horansi are considered one species or at least one genus, with four types that are able to interbreed (at least Gorvan with each of the other three).
In my game, I was inspired by the Horansi to create my own cat species named Felidae which are the recently discovered "missing link" predecessor of at least the Horansi, Farghul, Cathar, Togorian, Trianii, Barathax (from D6 Space Aliens) and Fteirle (based on the Aslan from Traveller) species. The Felidae have 10 distinct living races that each appear nearly identical to each of these 10 near-Felidae species (except resized in some cases) who each descended from a Felidae race. I wanted players to be able to play a feline character that looks like any of the offshoot species, but yet have only one species with unified game stats. One special ability of the Felidae is that they can almost always detect if feline humanoids within 10 meters are Felidae or not (GM discretion), and the Felidae seem to have an inborn hatred of all other feline species which are not trusted and not welcome on their homeworld, so whether any of the near-Felidae species are able to interbreed with Felidae is unknown because there have never been any cases. Felidae are the only cat species playable as PCs in my game so I haven't bothered determining if any of the near-Felidae species are able to interbreed with each other.
On the same homeworld as the Felidae, there is also another sentient species known as Avesians who are my bird people originally inspired by Lafrarians. Avesians are the predecessors of at least these avian species: Mrlssti, Fosh, Kilmaulsi, Rishii, Calibops, Shashays, Lafrarians, Lafran, Mrissi and Tasari. (The creation of last four species involved genetic engineering). One of the Avesian races have a distinct subrace called Mrlssi who live on Mrlsst with their genetic cousins, the near-Avesian species Mrlssti, which in my SWU explains the EU's two different species names and two significantly different appearances. Two related species live together in a single society, but the two species are not able to interbreed. Avesians and Mrlssti are the only bird species playable as PCs in my game, and it is likely that all of the near-Avesian species are not able to interbreed with Avesians or each other.
I have also created the predecessor species of the Verpine and the Svivreni, the Verinex and Kentauroi, respectively. The 6-limbed predecessor species were both from the same planet and who created their offshoots through genetic engineering. I don't even consider the descended species to be "near-" the predecessors, and they are definitely not able to interbreed with their predecessors. All four of these species are playable as PCs in my game. I also allow Duros and the near-duros Neimoidians as PCs, but it seems the two species have diverged to the point of not being able to interbreed.
I'm something of an armchair evolutionary biologist so I put a lot of thought into this sort of thing. 
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cynanbloodbane
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Ok this brings a question to mind.
Can the Mon Calamari crossbreed with the Quarren?
Now that I have asked the question, I cant stop picturing Dr. Zoidberg. Sorry had to share that disturbing thought.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:29 am Post subject: |
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As far as i know.. No they can't.
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